WARNING BUGGED !!!

[Tovarishtito 2]

I suggest players should be  warned about bugs that make Wurming a pain and disappointment (they should be FIXED, but if noone is spending effort to fix them, and players arent helped/compensated, then at least a warning is a MUST). There are many ways to do that, I  won't try to start making up ways to do it, (but for example there could be warnings  instead the texts that exist now, when a player is waiting for login, or players could be warned when doing something connected to a  bug).

List of those is probably much longer, but here are a few:

 

- Your horse can be lost and the equipment on it, if you lead it with a rope  or a halter rope (also stuck inside someone else's building) !

- If you are in a combat while embarking you can get frozen and killed !

- If you put  a moonmetal in a bulk storage you will waste a chunk of it !

- You can accidently enter a  locked mine (possibly on a deed), you won't be able to get out and your belongings will be lost, because suicide is required to exit !

 

In the cases above, GMs will usually tell you that you won't get help or compensation ( I received help/compenzation for  the first 2 cases, but you probably won't be helped for the last 2, I heard  from CAs )  Even if you receive help, it will not be quick, and you will have to be very patient and persistant to get it, your demands will be ridiculed by those that already encountered the issue and accepted their fate (they just didn't want to argue with anyone).

Edited February 8, 2017 by Tovarishtito

[Yldrania 1,430]

All the bugs listed by you are known to the team and have been mentioned many times. The developers are trying their best to find a solution to fix them, but it isn't always as easy as it might seem.

 

As for not receiving support: I've never heard of a situation where a player was stuck somewhere and did not receive help. I myself have been teleported out of locked areas in the past and I've never heard of someone who's reported such an issue and not received help, and you yourself have said that you've received support for the first two, so I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this post. 

[Tovarishtito 2]

I know people who were stuck in a mine , and did not receive  help.

And I was told my seryll lump probably won't be compensated.

I know the bugs are known, and that is exactly my point. Because they are not known  to new  players, but they should be. If new players discover too many of those, they might just quit Wurm, I was on the  edge of doing so myself, because I can't understand  the  irresponsibility of the team, not trying to warn the players and leaving that part of their work to the community to solve it, and talk about it in the forum.

I know my suggestion will probably be ridiculed (as I already said), I expect that.

My suggestion is maybe a warning in event should exist, or a window with a warning should open when doing something that can trigger a bug, so new players are warned, once you  know  about it you should be able to turn it off. (like some other notes in "trade chat" or the warning about losing stuff that can be stolen, those can be turned off.)

There are many warnings, but none about bugs, I suppose that is not to make it  look bad, but it looks even worse when discovered.

Yes I received help,  but I had to wait for hours, in one case a day, and I was refused compensation at first, so I had to be persistant to get it.

But it's not about me, it's about the quality of experience for potential new  players, many bugs exist for very long, only to be "discovered" over and over again by new players.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Tovarishtito

[Tovarishtito 2]

I understand if some bugs either can't be fixed, or can't be  fixed fast, but adding a warning for new players to avoid the trouble, couldn't be too  hard.

 

[Mordraug 2,542]

A "known issues" thread would be handy, all games have them, no shame in it.

 

Then add some very clear reference to said thread in the tutorial.  At least, when the server eats a few dollars of someone's purchased goods, CC would have a (weak) excuse when denying support/compensation other than the average "You paid for our product, you are now subordinate to us and your cash is potentially lost" which by the way, I must insist is a very very bad business model that makes Wurm highly vulnerable to the possibility of a "close enough" game swooping in and emptying the servers.

[faty 423]

I thought the moonmetal in bsb weight reduction is a "feature" so yo don't haul tons of moonmetal and actually use it for something.. but yeah, you should receive a warning, or even better, deny the option altogether.

Regarding mines where you get trapped, that's mostly your fault.. I managed to do that once because the mine had a gate in front but i was still able to drop in from the top, but not get out. My only option was to mine a new entrance. Worst case scenario you would have to suicide and teleport body to you with karma points (if it's worth it).

I would like to see a forum topic with known bugs that really affect qol, like the embark bug where the game freezes or border crossing bug where you end up in the water or the map doesn't load at all..

[Arium 321]

2 hours ago, Tovarishtito said:

- Your horse can be lost and the equipment on it, if you lead it with a rope  or a halter rope (also stuck inside someone else's building) !

- If you are in a combat while embarking you can get frozen and killed !

- If you put  a moonmetal in a bulk storage you will waste a chunk of it !

- You can accidently enter a  locked mine (possibly on a deed), you won't be able to get out and your belongings will be lost, because suicide is required to exit !

the only bug you mentioned is the embark bug, and thats like a chance to happen every blue moon, true, mostly with a bad timing but its the problem that its a non-reproducible bug, so noones been able to find the exact cause up til now.

 

 

and as you mentioned, you were reimbursed in the first two cases.

even tho the first was your own failure, but branded horses do have a way to prove ownership so you will usually receive help there.

the second actually is a bug.

not sure about the third, never had that happen cause averaging ql of moon metals is a silly thing to do anyways.

the fourth is a personal failure. if a mine is locked and you try everything to get in regardless of that, bear the consequences. the game already is nice enough to give you a solution (char window, r-click body, karma, recall corpse or town portal).

 

2 hours ago, Yldrania said:

As for not receiving support: I've never heard of a situation where a player was stuck somewhere and did not receive help. I myself have been teleported out of locked areas in the past and I've never heard of someone who's reported such an issue and not received help, and you yourself have said that you've received support for the first two, so I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this post. 

i did, when i entered a locked mine with a fence in front of it, it was my own failure to jump in over the side after all. however the gm also gave me the advise that the thing that locked it was a non-protected enclosure, so i could just bash out the gate and was free.

[cccdfern 182]

2 hours ago, faty said:

I thought the moonmetal in bsb weight reduction is a "feature" so yo don't haul tons of moonmetal and actually use it for something.. but yeah, you should receive a warning, or even better, deny the option altogether.

Regarding mines where you get trapped, that's mostly your fault.. I managed to do that once because the mine had a gate in front but i was still able to drop in from the top, but not get out. My only option was to mine a new entrance. Worst case scenario you would have to suicide and teleport body to you with karma points (if it's worth it).

I would like to see a forum topic with known bugs that really affect qol, like the embark bug where the game freezes or border crossing bug where you end up in the water or the map doesn't load at all..

Wait.. so that embark-frozen things not just me?

[Keenan 5,539]

Embark-Frozen is the bane of my existence. The many hours logged trying to reproduce it in a debugger to actually understand why it happens is many.

 

4 hours ago, Tovarishtito said:

they should be FIXED, but if noone is spending effort to fix them

 

If only it was as easy as "spending effort".

 

A post isn't my call, but here's some food for thought:

1) We could never post exploits.

2) You mentioned no one is "spending effort" on fixing bugs, yet ask to "spend effort" on maintaining a forum post (instead of fixing bugs)

3) Whenever Alectrys can actually confirm and reproduce a bug, it's usually fixed fairly quickly.

4) #3 means that even if we wanted to, often times the details of a bug are so vague, weird, or completely random that a post would literally be... well let's take embark:

 

"Sometimes you might get frozen while embarking"

 

5) The majority of the bugs are sourced from the bug forum. In essence, that's the best list we have and what we actually use to bring data into our internal tracker.

 

I'm sorry you've had a few affect you - there's probably a good dozen players by now who know me because I've had to fix them after a particularly pesky bug. We take it all very seriously, and if a bug hasn't been fixed yet - it's either because we've been working on more important ones or we just haven't been able to crack it. Not all bugs are equal. Some can be spotted just by the end result. Most that I've had to deal with though, they take hours or even days of reviewing logs, data, reports, and finally code in order to narrow down the cause. Then it can take just as long to come up with a solution that doesn't break anything else. If it does, it's rinse and repeat - either we trace down the new bug or we have to alter our fix.

 

The best way to help us kill more bugs is to always report your findings, provide clear and complete information, and be willing to provide more if needed.

[Tovarishtito 2]

- I just found  out that Normal Fighting skillgain doesn't work at all, noone was informed about it ingame. Only people that heard about it, were reading forums, or were analysing the actuall skillgain found out, how could a newb know that for example??  I play this game for  about 4 months,  and I was not paying attention  to normal fighting, I  don't feel like playing detective either, who knows how much skill I wasted this way.

 

Arium,

how could the firstone be my own failure, if at that time I had no idea that  the bug existed? Horse entering a  locked house is myown failure?? Are we really accepting  that a game that costs real money does that??

My horse was not branded at all, if it wouldn't have a saddle on, noone would help me.

And I was helped only after waiting for hours for a GM in the  first case,

In the second case I had to send an email complaint, cause a GM told me I have to accept  that i lost skills for a bug.

I lost a lot of time and patience.

I did not  put  it in bulk  to average it  Arium, but to keep  it safe from decay.

I won't say anything about the 4th, never happened to me, but I assume someone could get in a mine by accident, press x to drive on, something distracts you in RL, and you are inside a locked mine that you can't exit.

I can add that I know someone who was refused help in the mine situation, but I'm not saying that he entered by accident. I'm not saying that he entered on purpose either, why would he do that to himself?

 

And moonmetal weight reduction IS NOT A FEATURE, it's a known bug. So I was told today by a CA.

 

My only point is, WHY ARE PLAYERS NOT INFORMED INGAME?   There could be a note like "Normal fighting skillgain is currently bugged, no skill will  be received. Thank  you for your patience." in addition to messages like "this is a trade channel... "

or the warning about stuff that can be stolen outside inventory...  and all the stuff we all already know.  We all get informed that "If you continue in this direction you will end up on Xanadu" even if WE set the destination, and even if it's no problem to  turn around and go back.

 

And I agree with Mordraug, only shame is in hiding it. Btw letting players themselves speak about bugs in the forums, is NOT solving the issue, players are NOT responsible to do that, the crew is. This is NOT a charity game,, it costs money, the crew should realise that.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Tovarishtito

[Tovarishtito 2]

16 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

Embark-Frozen is the bane of my existence. The many hours logged trying to reproduce it in a debugger to actually understand why it happens is many.

 

I take that about effort spending back, I understand that you are doing your best.

But I still think that  "Sometimes you might get frozen while embarking"  is far better than nothing, especially if you add "In case you are fighting, relog immediately" it would save many broken hearts.

We will provide details about bugs we discover, but please try to inform the playerbase somehow, if a player reports a bug, that doesn't mean everyone knows about it, especially not the new players, on which the future of this game depends.

I'm not saying you should inform us about every bug that exists,  but giving it a bit of thought, it's not that hard to recognize the most unpleasant ones. Wurm really is a great game, but hides some unpleasant surprizes for the uninformed, and I don't think that it is necessary to be so.

[Aeris 3,758]

They do post server warning messages about severe bugs, the problem is they're often drowned out by grinding actions. I've suggested a tab before where posts like that end up, so you can always tab into that one to see what's up.

[Greyfox 427]

47 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

A post isn't my call, but here's some food for thought:

1) We could never post exploits.

 

 

 

 

Actually you could, and that would really help identify what exactly is an exploit and what exactly is a feature.  To be fair in the past large exploits have been vaguely posted about to warn people away from accidently using them(Usually pvp related also resulting in a temp stop in PVP).   It also removes peoples excuse "well I didn't know it was an exploit."  and that is a fair excuse in some cases.  Remember, it's not your customers job to understand how game mechanics are SUPPOSED to work, we just find what works and play with that(The way surface mining used to work with fences to stand on for example).

A clear list of what is an exploit, what is a bug and what is a "bug but for now a feature" list would be really nice.
+10 to OP.

[Retrograde 12,013]

We always work to advise players of major gameplay affecting bugs via WSA's and other systems, other gameplay bugs which are inconvenient are advised of, but we cannot go around  blasing game wide warnings to every player about every bug.

 

Known issues are kept in a list, and  Alectrys works extremely hard in updating information on bugs, and also advising when they are closed, I advise reading our server bugs forum if you are interested in keeping up to date with it, as that's where we do everything you are requesting:

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/forum/28-server-bugs/

 

15 minutes ago, Greyfox said:

Actually you could, and that would really help identify what exactly is an exploit and what exactly is a feature.  To be fair in the past large exploits have been vaguely posted about to warn people away from accidently using them(Usually pvp related also resulting in a temp stop in PVP).   It also removes peoples excuse "well I didn't know it was an exploit."  and that is a fair excuse in some cases.  Remember, it's not your customers job to understand how game mechanics are SUPPOSED to work, we just find what works and play with that(The way surface mining used to work with fences to stand on for example).

A clear list of what is an exploit, what is a bug and what is a "bug but for now a feature" list would be really nice.
+10 to OP.

No it wouldnt, it would cause issues for players and staff when it comes to moderation and banning those who do exploit.

 

players are usually pretty aware of what is and isnt an exploit, and are very quick to report or question things that they feel may be so.

 

Known bugs are collected here, and while the list is not complete, it also contains a pretty big list of issues you may encounter while playing:

 

[Ruiner 362]

occasionally get frozen while embarking? happens to me nearly every time i get on my horse and i have to relog

[Keenan 5,539]

35 minutes ago, Ruiner said:

occasionally get frozen while embarking? happens to me nearly every time i get on my horse and i have to relog

 

Sadly this is actually not the same bug, but has been equally difficult to sort out even with it being 100% reproduced by mounting a horse and reconnecting the client.

 

[_Teal_ 478]

Embark bug for me, seems to be a thing since you allowed border crossings anywhere. I think it was a problem via boats before being found on horses.
If not that, then bridges and the "not on the same level" error.
Also, if you embark 3-4 tiles away, more likely to happen.
Only fix atm is to fully log off the game AND leave world to stop it from happening again, anytime soon.
I want to believe that for w/e reason sometimes it puts you on a different level in game and thats why everything vanishes.

Idk, little bits of village gospel to dispel the witches
 

Edited February 8, 2017 by _Teal_

[zethreal 582]

1 hour ago, Greyfox said:

 

Actually you could, and that would really help identify what exactly is an exploit and what exactly is a feature.  To be fair in the past large exploits have been vaguely posted about to warn people away from accidently using them(Usually pvp related also resulting in a temp stop in PVP).   It also removes peoples excuse "well I didn't know it was an exploit."  and that is a fair excuse in some cases.  Remember, it's not your customers job to understand how game mechanics are SUPPOSED to work, we just find what works and play with that(The way surface mining used to work with fences to stand on for example).

A clear list of what is an exploit, what is a bug and what is a "bug but for now a feature" list would be really nice.
+10 to OP.

 

If you really have to ask yourself "Is this an exploit". Chances are that it is.

[_Teal_ 478]

actually in a sandbox game with over 100 ways to do different things, people don't always think so. 

Unless ofc you're gaining 10 fight skill per goblin kill because you use a unstrung shortbow with a speed rune or something xD

Edited February 8, 2017 by _Teal_

[zigozag 918]

1 hour ago, _Teal_ said:

Embark bug for me, seems to be a thing since you allowed border crossings anywhere

No, it was here before. Btw i've never gotten it when embarking from few tiles away. And the worst thing is sometimes relogging for /lotime doesn't help, as well as (!!!) switching computers.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

I have had my horse plowed into someone's house, I have been stuck in player mines, carts stuck in the oddest possible situations and every time a GM has bailed me out. They may roll there eyes at me on occasion, but the GM Team does a very good job in helping players get unstuck.

 

I think they only time they will not intervene is if its on a PvP server inside enemy territory where the solutions can be solved on your own or with some friends help.

 

 

[Greyfox 427]

3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

 

No it wouldnt, it would cause issues for players and staff when it comes to moderation and banning those who do exploit.

 

players are usually pretty aware of what is and isnt an exploit, and are very quick to report or question things that they feel may be so.

How would having a clear list of currently known exploits make moderation harder?  If anything that would make it easier.   You can completely skip the "did they know(have sufficient reason to believe) it was an exploit before doing it" part of the moderation.  Sure there are some exploits you couldn't post(Deed permissions exploit from awhile back comes to mind) as posting them would risk honest players loosing items.   But other more minor things you could post "Hey this <insert> is not working properly at this time and is considered an exploit."
 

 

2 hours ago, zethreal said:

 

If you really have to ask yourself "Is this an exploit". Chances are that it is.

You have see the "debates" in chat about what people think is/is not an exploit?   That "logic" is just a silly way to look at it.    Also it doesn't help that some things in game that would seem like an "exploit" are not.  For example, hoping on someones unlocked boat and taking off with it(less now that they come with locks).   Or(Dare I say it) penning uniques when that was supposed to be stoped 2+ years ago.  Is it really intended that they can be buried and captured that way?  Is it an exploit?  Or is it a "Not working as intended and will get changed at some point but for now use it as a feature"  sort of thing?
Do you see how a list would help?

[Yiraia 427]

"- If you put  a moonmetal in a bulk storage you will waste a chunk of it ! "

 

WAIT WHAT o.o

 

+1

21 hours ago, zethreal said:

 

If you really have to ask yourself "Is this an exploit". Chances are that it is.

Totally disagree. Some things are very handy to the point where it could either be a nice trick to get a task done or just an exploit. Ex: Healing at a rift , So many people put plenty of effort fighting everything they can, i target every now and then to get some extra participation and then heal to get around 50 participation points per cast. I end up having a participation 400 greater than the most decked out fighter there and my casts don't even have to be strong, have good armor, or a good weapon. Exploit or just a handy trick?

 

Edit: ^Okay it was an exploit, just got nerfed day after i said this XD

Edited February 9, 2017 by Yiraia
wurm updated

[ElectricViper 0]

This is discouraging considering I just add 2 months of game time to my account earlier today.

[Tovarishtito 2]

Just to let everyone know: 

My demand to restore the lump was just denied by a CA, reason stated wasting  their time.  But I spent 3 hours at rift, is a player's time valued that little?

I'm not after that chunk of seryll anymore, I don't want it back now.

I did not expect it would be restored, noone had any moonmetals restored cause of the bulk storage bug, no fix, no warning, no compensation. Make up your mind and at least choose 1 of the 3.

It's not  like Wurm has 100 000 players.  Or at least totally prevent putting moonmetals in bulk.

Many still believe it's a "feature" people speak of it as a feature in the forums.

And here I ask the developers or at least a GM, is it really a feature ?

(a CA told me it's a bug, and it certainly looks like a bug, but please tell people here what is it really, so we get rid of any doubts)

 

Yiraia, I wonder if everyone using the exploit got nerfed, or was it just you?

 

p.s.  I switched to "agressive fighting" now, since I found out that "neutral fighting" is bugged, I would do that earlier, if I only knew.

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Tovarishtito