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Pandalet

Cooking questions answered!

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On 08/01/2017 at 6:03 PM, joedobo said:

" For positive decay drinks (like grape wine), the quality will start improving so long as the barrel is sealed; if it is not unsealed at the end of fermentation, the positive decay will start immediately.  For other liquids, no decay will occur while the barrel remains sealed. "

and

"Grape wine and distilled drinks.  Fermented drinks do not."

 

For the distilled drinks, should we leave the drinks in the barrel at the undistilled stage or distill them and then put back in the barrel to age?

 

Only the finished drinks get positive decay; the fermented-but-undistilled intermediates do not (they'll decay in the normal way if not in a sealed container).

 

On 08/01/2017 at 6:09 PM, ClericGunem said:

I was  yesterday looking for certain affinities and at one point i began working through the combinations of cottage pie and notice a lot of repeats and certain vegetables repeating affinities, for example every combination where i used lettuce was the same affinity where i used pumpkin.  In addition, there is almost a theme to some foods for a particular character, such as high numbers of combinations of certain foods/main ingredients resulting in affinities around shields or weapons.

 

Is there some way to organize/categorize ingredients to ensure more diversity in affinities?  96 combinations of cottage pie resulted in ~16 distinct affinities, with some of the repeats being very common, alchemy for example 8 times

 

It's possible that there's some clustering going on - to simplify the process somewhat, the IDs involved are summed up, with the final result being modulused by the total number of skills.  If you're experimenting, I'd suggest only changing 1 thing at a time, as this might result in more walking.  You could find that (say) adding carrots and ginger is the same as cabbage and cumin, due to the sum of the IDs being the same.  Given the number of IDs that go into a moderately complex food, minor changes can have significant changes in affinity, especially as the IDs involved can be quite different in value (e.g. old crops vs new ones).  I'm afraid I can't really offer any specific suggestions beyond experimentation and to try multiple base meals.

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39 minutes ago, Pandalet said:

the IDs involved are summed up, with the final result being modulused by the total number of skills. 

 

 

Panda, thank you, you perfectly answered my question, thank you.  The hash function explains the duplicates and depending on the width of the ids may explain the apparent/anecdotal predominance of certain affinities 

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On 6.1.2017 at 4:46 PM, Pandalet said:

So, the short answer is that if the names of things are different, that's a good indication that using them as ingredients in another recipe will probably give different affinities.  If you want to be absolutely sure to get the same affinity, keep everything as similar as possible.

 

Cream is a bit of a problem here. Different creams give different affinities, but have the same name and same text on examine, thus easy to mess things up because there's no way to see what milk a cream is made of.

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On 1/7/2017 at 3:20 PM, Pandalet said:

 

Grape wine and distilled drinks.  Fermented drinks do not.

 

I would like to point out that Mead gets better with time and should be reflected in game.

 

Also, no winery would ad maple syrup to their fine wine. Needs to be correct in wurm too. ( I think whoever originally designed this thought about maple wine (or a mead style with maple instead of honey ).

 

Thxs!

Edited by Bramson

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On 1/7/2017 at 8:20 PM, Pandalet said:

As best I can tell, container QL does not affect skill gain when cooking.

 

So this changed? I know pan QL before 1.3 did affect the skill roll, and thus the chance to gain skill.

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On 1/9/2017 at 4:05 PM, Pandalet said:

 

Only the finished drinks get positive decay; the fermented-but-undistilled intermediates do not (they'll decay in the normal way if not in a sealed container).

 

 

It's possible that there's some clustering going on - to simplify the process somewhat, the IDs involved are summed up, with the final result being modulused by the total number of skills.  If you're experimenting, I'd suggest only changing 1 thing at a time, as this might result in more walking.  You could find that (say) adding carrots and ginger is the same as cabbage and cumin, due to the sum of the IDs being the same.  Given the number of IDs that go into a moderately complex food, minor changes can have significant changes in affinity, especially as the IDs involved can be quite different in value (e.g. old crops vs new ones).  I'm afraid I can't really offer any specific suggestions beyond experimentation and to try multiple base meals.

 

This is extremely aparrent in beers and ales. We made about 50 variations and my 2 characters had the same or similar affinities over and over. For example both characters got small metal shied, medium metal shied and shields at least 2 times. Out of 50 possibilities we got about 10 completely unique affinities. One character got nearly every type of smithing. I would love to see the list actually randomized.

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On 1/10/2017 at 4:02 PM, Eobersig said:

 

Cream is a bit of a problem here. Different creams give different affinities, but have the same name and same text on examine, thus easy to mess things up because there's no way to see what milk a cream is made of.

So then, is Bovinia cream any different from unnamed Brown cow cream?  I know the milk has a different name.

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8 minutes ago, Tathar said:

So then, is Bovinia cream any different from unnamed Brown cow cream?  I know the milk has a different name.

 

Yes, when you make cream from cow, bison and sheep milk it will all become "cream" (same name, same examine text), but the different creams will not combine and the same dish made with different creams will have different affinities.

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Has there been any progress with fixing flower tiles in regards to honey production. They still are only producing .01kgs of honey at 75ql when surrounded by flower tiles. Again this happened after the wax production was increased.

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On 10/01/2017 at 7:42 PM, Darmalus said:

How do bees treat enchanted grass?

 

Currently, they ignore it (which is a bug).  There is a fix (which should be in the next release) which makes them treat enchanted grass and trees like slightly better grass.

 

On 10/01/2017 at 9:02 PM, Eobersig said:

Cream is a bit of a problem here. Different creams give different affinities, but have the same name and same text on examine, thus easy to mess things up because there's no way to see what milk a cream is made of.

 

Yes, the different creams use different materials, and are thus different IDs for affinity calculation.  They should show types in names, this is a bug (and on my to-fix list).

 

On 10/01/2017 at 9:28 PM, LorenaMontana said:

Does zombie milk do anything nowadays?

 

Zombie milk should do the same things it did before v1.3, and can also be used in cooking.  It uses the item state to show zombiefied.

 

On 12/01/2017 at 2:55 PM, Ostentatio said:

So this changed? I know pan QL before 1.3 did affect the skill roll, and thus the chance to gain skill.

 

If it affected skill gain before v1.3, then I'd say it's changed. 

 

On 11/01/2017 at 1:53 PM, Bramson said:

Also, no winery would ad maple syrup to their fine wine. Needs to be correct in wurm too. ( I think whoever originally designed this thought about maple wine (or a mead style with maple instead of honey ).

 

Actually, this is a backwards compatibility thing.  Before v1.3, the only sugar-like item in the game was maple syrup, so that's what you used to make fermented drinks (originally only wine).  We kept that recipe with the new cooking system, even though it's not strictly true-to-reality.

 

1 hour ago, JudusX said:

Has there been any progress with fixing flower tiles in regards to honey production. They still are only producing .01kgs of honey at 75ql when surrounded by flower tiles. Again this happened after the wax production was increased.

 

There are some fixes coming through soon (hopefully the next update) which should improve this.

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Is this new cooking system designed only for very high level of skills?

 

I'm only asking because with my lowly 28 HFC my temp affinities last only a minute or so. I was quite excited to discover a meal that gave mediation affinity only to then notice it wouldn't last as long as it took to meditate. Seems like wasted work if it doesn't really work for all skill levels of players.

Edited by Lumbro

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On 1/10/2017 at 1:02 PM, Eobersig said:

 

Cream is a bit of a problem here. Different creams give different affinities, but have the same name and same text on examine, thus easy to mess things up because there's no way to see what milk a cream is made of.

 

I've found that the same is true of butter.  Although the butter is not labeled as being from cow/sheep/bison, it does change the affinity so have to keep track of it if you make the butter from all 3.

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21 hours ago, Lumbro said:

Is this new cooking system designed only for very high level of skills?

 

I'm only asking because with my lowly 28 HFC my temp affinities last only a minute or so. I was quite excited to discover a meal that gave mediation affinity only to then notice it wouldn't last as long as it took to meditate. Seems like wasted work if it doesn't really work for all skill levels of players.

 

The cooking system isn't limited to high skills.  The length of the temporary affinity is affected by the QL of the meal (which is directly affected by skill), but also by the complexity of the meal and the nutritional value.  More complex dishes (which require more ingredients and more steps) will generally give much longer temporary affinities.  My personal favourites are the curries - at 50ish QL (50ish HFC), they give about half an hour of affinity from a small amount, and there's enough variety possible to do a fair amount of affinity hunting.

 

3 hours ago, Amadee said:

 

I've found that the same is true of butter.  Although the butter is not labeled as being from cow/sheep/bison, it does change the affinity so have to keep track of it if you make the butter from all 3.

 

That is part of the same bug.  Whipped cream too.  As a temporary manual work-around, I suggest renaming the cream or butter when you make it to show where it came from.

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On 1/14/2017 at 6:51 PM, Pandalet said:

If it affected skill gain before v1.3, then I'd say it's changed. 

 

weird, when making stuff that uses baking/beverages I use all my high ql stuff (80-90+), and pretty much get barely any to no skill in any of my testing

but when i tried cooking with 15ql baking stones i was getting baking skill ticks far more frequently

 

is this just placebo effect/rng then?

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I know it was asked and somehow answered several times before, but how long "should" it take to a wild bee queen to migrate to a domestic hive?

 

I placed a hive next to a wild one, +30ql higher than the wild one (which is 42 ql), and that happened over a (real time) week ago, yet the wild queen didn't migrate. The wild hive is on deed, on Xanadu.

The migration RNG seems pretty excessive, considering a Wurm year has only 6 real weeks, and for almost 2 of them bees are not active (late fall and winter time).

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Sorry if this was asked already, but seriously how do i level HFC now, I want to get 90 skill I have billions of crops whats the optimal route?

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On 6. januar 2017 at 8:18 PM, Jaz said:

 

In my recent test, container (ie. frying pan) rarity does NOT change the affinities.

Cooker rarity does though.

It might have been changed (or fixed) after you wrote this, but i got new affinities on 3 different toons today when making the exact same food, using the same cook and oven, but changed frying pan from normal to rare.

 

Maybe some recipes give the same affinity on normal/rare/supreme/fantastic container?

Like mentioned some recipes give same affinities with different ingredient.

Edited by Nordlys

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Concerning bee hive radius. Do tile yields remain the same or do they change with the distance from the hive? Does for example a flower tile right next to the hive produce the same amount of honey/wax as an identical tile at the edge of the hive area?

 

About new recipes, I would love to see some local recipes included. Maybe we should define a way and a place to suggest new recipes. Staring a new threat in the suggestion subforum would be unproductive in my opinion.

 

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11 hours ago, Erlindur said:

Staring a new threat in the suggestion subforum...

 

Don't all threads degenerate to that, no matter the subforum?

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On 1/16/2017 at 8:01 PM, Evening said:

I placed a hive next to a wild one, +30ql higher than the wild one (which is 42 ql), and that happened over a (real time) week ago, yet the wild queen didn't migrate.

 

For us, it's been on avg a couple days to migrate since the first week after bees.  However.  If you so much as touch the hive (possibly even just open it) the timer can be reset.  Just because there is RNG doesn't mean resets are OK.  Some forum posters have mentioned messing with migration hives (source or dest) and still getting a migrate 1-2 days *after* a touch.  DON'T BE FOOLED!!! They got a very lucky RNG tick.  You could conceivably *never* get a migration if you reset once every 2 days (even unknowingly). 

 

To be sure. Fence the active (wild or domestic) hive, plant and lock the passive hive.  One un-shared account with access.  Don't touch either hive.  Don't even open one.  Only then count days till migration. (once planted hover to check for active every day)

 

EDIT: Always always have >= 3 sugar in all domestic hives!   (not an excuse to open while waiting for migration)

Edited by Belgrim
Forgot sugar!

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Does opulence only add how much food fill or does it affect also to ccfp?

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I have thought about this for a while!  I have made several hundred meals and noticed that there is a pattern with changing meat...

 

ie certain sklls come out after each other with meat alphabetically organized... Bear Beef Canine... etc (15 types of meat)

 

Now I have done enough variations to have the skill list loop around and it skips over certain affinties.

 

 

Now I'm noticing there are 'chunks' of affinities that certain characters dont get.  I had 8 toons skip over channeling (which comes after prayer) and go straight to mine, body, soul). I have 1 alt that doesnt skip over and gets channeling,

 

This is my pattern I'm getting : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16pv6y4yE9MRIP7Y8g7U1AvjzTRlgqeoXw1TJx4bKwaU/edit?usp=sharing

 

Now finally down to my question.. I understand you cant divulge the actual code... but can every toon have the option to get every affinity or are there gonna be 'chunks' or certain affinities just unobtainable to certain people based on their ID number??

Edited by DoctorAngus

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Apologies for slow responses - RL has been a bit mad of late.

 

On 16/01/2017 at 10:42 PM, MrGARY said:

weird, when making stuff that uses baking/beverages I use all my high ql stuff (80-90+), and pretty much get barely any to no skill in any of my testing

but when i tried cooking with 15ql baking stones i was getting baking skill ticks far more frequently

 

is this just placebo effect/rng then?

 

It's possible I've misread this, but my read is that containers used for heat-based recipies (i.e. ones that don't involve using a tool on something) do not affect things by their QL.  I will have another work through when I have a few hours spare and see if I reach the same conclusion.

 

On 17/01/2017 at 1:01 AM, Evening said:

I know it was asked and somehow answered several times before, but how long "should" it take to a wild bee queen to migrate to a domestic hive?

 

I placed a hive next to a wild one, +30ql higher than the wild one (which is 42 ql), and that happened over a (real time) week ago, yet the wild queen didn't migrate. The wild hive is on deed, on Xanadu.

The migration RNG seems pretty excessive, considering a Wurm year has only 6 real weeks, and for almost 2 of them bees are not active (late fall and winter time).

 

For a queen to migrate, the basic check for migration is a 1-in-3 chance.  If there are two queens (noisy hive), that's enough.  For a single queen, there is a further RNG check, with the chance being inversely proportional to the distance between the hives.  The check is done about once per RL day (I think - more info to follow).

 

On 18/01/2017 at 8:50 PM, Niki said:

Sorry if this was asked already, but seriously how do i level HFC now, I want to get 90 skill I have billions of crops whats the optimal route?

 

There should be a good range of difficulties available.  See my previous answers.

 

On 18/01/2017 at 11:10 PM, Nordlys said:

It might have been changed (or fixed) after you wrote this, but i got new affinities on 3 different toons today when making the exact same food, using the same cook and oven, but changed frying pan from normal to rare.

 

Maybe some recipes give the same affinity on normal/rare/supreme/fantastic container?

Like mentioned some recipes give same affinities with different ingredient.

 

Although it's possible, I'm not aware of a change to that.  It's more likely that you used a slightly different combination of ingredients - for example, cream and butter have the same name, regardless of whether they came from cows, sheep or bison, but they will give different results (the name thing is a bug, in this case).  The state of ingredients can also make a difference.

 

On 19/01/2017 at 11:20 AM, Erlindur said:

Concerning bee hive radius. Do tile yields remain the same or do they change with the distance from the hive? Does for example a flower tile right next to the hive produce the same amount of honey/wax as an identical tile at the edge of the hive area?

 

The tile yields for a particular tile will be the same regardless of distance from the hive (so long as they fall within the hive's influence area).

 

On 20/01/2017 at 2:47 AM, Belgrim said:

For us, it's been on avg a couple days to migrate since the first week after bees.  However.  If you so much as touch the hive (possibly even just open it) the timer can be reset.  Just because there is RNG doesn't mean resets are OK.  Some forum posters have mentioned messing with migration hives (source or dest) and still getting a migrate 1-2 days *after* a touch.  DON'T BE FOOLED!!! They got a very lucky RNG tick.  You could conceivably *never* get a migration if you reset once every 2 days (even unknowingly). 

 

To be sure. Fence the active (wild or domestic) hive, plant and lock the passive hive.  One un-shared account with access.  Don't touch either hive.  Don't even open one.  Only then count days till migration. (once planted hover to check for active every day)

 

EDIT: Always always have >= 3 sugar in all domestic hives!   (not an excuse to open while waiting for migration)

 

There is no 'reset' for the timer when a hive is opened - the RNG is not affected by this.  It's also not affected by sugar.  Having sugar in domestic hives doesn't hurt, since it'll increase your honey yields once the bees are in (as they'll eat sugar rather than some of their own honey), but it's not required for migration.

 

On 20/01/2017 at 9:31 PM, monsterix said:

Does opulence only add how much food fill or does it affect also to ccfp?

 

Opulence makes the food effective QL higher than it actually is.  For most foods, this only increases how much it will reduce your hunger, but there are a few other minor effects.  It doesn't affect CCFP.

 

6 hours ago, DoctorAngus said:

Now finally down to my question.. I understand you cant divulge the actual code... but can every toon have the option to get every affinity or are there gonna be 'chunks' or certain affinities just unobtainable to certain people based on their ID number??

 

I'm not entirely sure I understand your log data, but the intention is that every character should be able to get every affinity.  It's possible, however, that there are inherant patterns that aren't obvious from the algorithm, but which emerge in practice.  Your results are further complicated by the fact that food IDs aren't contiguous (they share an ID pool with basically everything, including all the non-food item types), and the skill IDs, although contiguous, are not in the same order internally as they appear in the skill list.  This means that although skills may appear 'next to' each other, their IDs may not be.  You will certainly see loops, as the number of skills is far less than the number of possible meals. 

 

You could also face the following scenario: let's say you're making two meals, each of which can use any veg as an ingredient (among other variables).  You fix everything else, and just vary which veg you use for each meal.  If the combination of other ingredients lands you on (say) skill 20 for meal A with veg 1, and meal B lands you on skill 20 with veg 4, if veg 2 and 3 follow veg 1's ID, and veg 5 and 6 follow veg 4's ID, they will give the same skills (i.e. meal A/veg 1 = meal B/veg4, meal A/veg 2 = meal B/veg 5, etc).  I apologise if this doesn't make a lot of sense - I'm struggling to find an easy way to explain it.  Just be aware that the IDs of things isn't contiguous, and the skill IDs don't go in the same order as the skill list.

 

If the affinities given are clustering, to the point where certain affinities are impossible (or insanely difficult) for certain characters, that would be a bug.  Having said that, proving this would require some serious simulation and / or a much better understanding of maths and stats than mine.  I will say that given the problem space, having only explored hundreds of possible combinations, you're still comfortably in the realms of unlucky RNG (or poor choices of recipe).

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