Pandalet

Cooking questions answered!

48 posts in this topic

As the cooking system has been out for a little while now, and there's quite a lot of new mechanisms and stuff, there have been a lot of questions on how things work specifically.  I have continued to update and fix the cooking document (see http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/148898-cooking-system-documentation/ ) as features are tweaked, or errors show up, but if you have any questions regarding cooking that aren't covered there, please ask them here, and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

I won't give out specific recipes, and there's obviously stuff I can't talk about, but I may be able to give hints.  This isn't the place for suggestions or requests, so please try to keep this on-topic.  I'll keep this thread open for a reasonable time, and I'll keep checking back while it's open. 

 

Information here may also get incorporated back into the main cooking document if appropriate.

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Herbs in say a veg sausage, and then that sausage used in bangers and mash don't mix up the B&M's affinity - different herbs don't mix it up that is. In general it seems affinities don't change unless a cooking ingredient's name changes. For example, onion sausage versus carrot sausage. The meat sausages have names also.

Hopefully the question I'm asking here is apparent. I having trouble clearly explaining it. How about this phrasing; When an intermediary cooking ingredient, an ingredient that was made with optional items, is used in other recipes, it seems that the variations from the optional item(s) don't mix up the affinity for the final food unless the ingredients name changed.

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For Fermenting drinks that turn into their final form, will they continue to raise in QL as they sit as long as its not opened? Or will it not raise in ql after it hits this point?

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17 minutes ago, Nicrolis said:

Will they continue to raise in QL as they sit as long as its not opened?

 

I remembered reading this recently:

Quote

For positive decay drinks (like grape wine), the quality will start improving so long as the barrel is sealed; if it is not unsealed at the end of fermentation, the positive decay will start immediately.  For other liquids, no decay will occur while the barrel remains sealed.

 

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Will using a rare papyrus sheet to copy a recipe result in a rare recipe card for an ordinary (non-looted) recipe?  If it does remain rare, will it be entered into the cookbook as a rare version of the recipe?

 

 

Quote

Each creature type has a basic, rare, supreme and fantastic recipe available.

 

The recipe cards will show up as their rarities (i.e. the rare goblin recipe will be a rare piece of papyrus), and may be used as above to add the recipe to a player’s cookbook (consuming the rare recipe card).

 

Rare (and better) recipes produce meals that have better CCFP values and longer temporary affinities compared to regular recipes.

 

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In your cooking doc, it says that the shelves in the larder can be renamed.  How do you do that?  The right click menu doesn't give me an option to rename the shelves.  I am the owner of the larders and I have tried it with them secured and not secured. I have also tried it with and without locks on them.  Has anyone else been able to rename the shelves?

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Amadee said:

In your cooking doc, it says that the shelves in the larder can be renamed.  How do you do that?  The right click menu doesn't give me an option to rename the shelves.  I am the owner of the larders and I have tried it with them secured and not secured. I have also tried it with and without locks on them.  Has anyone else been able to rename the shelves?

Can't take a screenshot atm, not at pc, but i renamed the shelves some time ago. Right click the shelf and rename i think it was... It did work, it was before christmas tho, maybe an update has broken something?

 

7.6 Storage

This part has some misinformation. Chopped vegs and herbs can be stored in FSB.

Diced meat can be stored, minced cannot. Flour, dough goes into FSB, Bread or crumbs does not. (I wish i could store the crumbs, they are dry ingredient :(, same goes for choclate)

Edited by Karidwen
Reading cooking document and noticed misinformation.

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  • What effects do rare/supreme/fanatstic beehives have? (Faster honey production? Queens more chance to survive winter? More beewax? Produce higher ql then beehive ql? Bees not stinging you when you dont use smoker? Bigger radius?)
  • Same question for rare/sup/fan larders and lunchboxes (even less decay on content?).

 

 

  • More of a question towards the future and longevity of the cooking update, but are there solid plans to keep adding recipes on a regular basis? (including more different rare/sup/fan recipes to be found on trolls/goblins).
  • And/or to expand extra herbs/fruits/veggies? Or is Wurm-code limited in some way in terms of how many different trees/bushes to harvest you can add (like the horse models?).
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What difficulty meals do I want to aim for at 99.996 HFC?

 

If that's not really answerable: does the cooking skillcheck feed directly into the regular skillcheck code (where 1-40 result is skillgain)?

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Some information below.  Some questions require a bit more digging than others, so bear with me...

 

19 hours ago, joedobo said:

 

Herbs in say a veg sausage, and then that sausage used in bangers and mash don't mix up the B&M's affinity - different herbs don't mix it up that is. In general it seems affinities don't change unless a cooking ingredient's name changes. For example, onion sausage versus carrot sausage. The meat sausages have names also.

Hopefully the question I'm asking here is apparent. I having trouble clearly explaining it. How about this phrasing; When an intermediary cooking ingredient, an ingredient that was made with optional items, is used in other recipes, it seems that the variations from the optional item(s) don't mix up the affinity for the final food unless the ingredients name changed.

 

The affinity depends in part from the IDs of the components - this means that (for example) passata should always be passata, no matter which herb you used.  However, where ingredients have real templates (e.g. meat types), this will also be added.  If any ingredient, cooker, tool or container involved in the recipe is rare, that also changes the affinity, as does the state of any ingredients (e.g. chopped, etc).  The bonus affinity is then modified using the ID of the player consuming the food, which is how the same thing gives different affinities for different players.  Where an item has a (inherited) real template, this is usually indicated in the name (e.g. 'bear korma').

 

So, the short answer is that if the names of things are different, that's a good indication that using them as ingredients in another recipe will probably give different affinities.  If you want to be absolutely sure to get the same affinity, keep everything as similar as possible.

 

19 hours ago, Nicrolis said:

For Fermenting drinks that turn into their final form, will they continue to raise in QL as they sit as long as its not opened? Or will it not raise in ql after it hits this point?

 

It's important to note that alcohols need to be in small wine barrels to improve QL.  Barrels need to be sealed, so you can either unseal and reseal the barrel, or leave it sealed at the end of fermentation - either works, the check just cares about whether the barrel is still sealed.  Oak barrels give a small bonus, as do being underground, being in structures, and being on deed (the underground bonus is the highest one).

 

18 hours ago, Meldichoir said:

Will using a rare papyrus sheet to copy a recipe result in a rare recipe card for an ordinary (non-looted) recipe?  If it does remain rare, will it be entered into the cookbook as a rare version of the recipe?

 

As far as I can tell, the papyrus sheet will remain rare, it just gets the recipe inscribed on it.  The recipe itself will remain standard, and if added to a cookbook, it'll show as non-rare.

 

15 hours ago, Amadee said:

In your cooking doc, it says that the shelves in the larder can be renamed.  How do you do that?  The right click menu doesn't give me an option to rename the shelves.  I am the owner of the larders and I have tried it with them secured and not secured. I have also tried it with and without locks on them.  Has anyone else been able to rename the shelves?

 

You do this by opening the larder and right-clicking on the shelf.  However, like BSBs etc, you need to be the owner of the larder - try picking it up and dropping it (or plantng it) first.

 

10 hours ago, Karidwen said:

7.6 Storage

This part has some misinformation. Chopped vegs and herbs can be stored in FSB.

Diced meat can be stored, minced cannot. Flour, dough goes into FSB, Bread or crumbs does not. (I wish i could store the crumbs, they are dry ingredient :(, same goes for choclate)

 

This has changed a few times, so that section likely needs looking at again, which I will do.  Thanks!

 

7 hours ago, Lycanthropic said:
  • What effects do rare/supreme/fanatstic beehives have? (Faster honey production? Queens more chance to survive winter? More beewax? Produce higher ql then beehive ql? Bees not stinging you when you dont use smoker? Bigger radius?)
  • Same question for rare/sup/fan larders and lunchboxes (even less decay on content?).
  • More of a question towards the future and longevity of the cooking update, but are there solid plans to keep adding recipes on a regular basis? (including more different rare/sup/fan recipes to be found on trolls/goblins).
  • And/or to expand extra herbs/fruits/veggies? Or is Wurm-code limited in some way in terms of how many different trees/bushes to harvest you can add (like the horse models?).

 

Hive rarity doesn't seem to have any effect at this stage, but that will likely change.  Larders are the same.  There are plans for more recipes, possibly including more lootable ones, but I don't have timescales or firm details - that's more of a Retro question.  There is also scope to expand the range of crop and fruit types, but I'm not aware of any plans for that at this stage - I wouldn't be surprised if there are more somewhere down the line, though. 

 

7 hours ago, Stanlee said:

What difficulty meals do I want to aim for at 99.996 HFC?

 

If that's not really answerable: does the cooking skillcheck feed directly into the regular skillcheck code (where 1-40 result is skillgain)?

 

Without going into the excrutiating detail of the skill gain system, at that level, you should get the most gain from high-difficulty meals.  For cooked meals, difficulty generally maxes out at 80 (without added optional ingredients), and the meals with built-in names (e.g. Budda's terrible pasta dish, Pandalet's one true pizza) are generally all high difficulty (70-80 range).  Haggis with whiskey sauce and xmas cake are also good candidates, since they're high intrinsic difficulty with a few optionals that will increase the difficulty.

 

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, Pandalet said:

Oak barrels give a small bonus, as do being underground, being in structures, and being on deed (the underground bonus is the highest one).

 

If its underground and in a structure, does that still give the underground bonus?

 

Also in regards to Bee's, it mentions the max quantity of bee's wax, how much honey will the hive hold? I have one hive building up to find out, but be nice to know.

Edited by JakeRivers

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4 minutes ago, Pandalet said:

 If any ingredient, cooker, tool or container involved in the recipe is rare, that also changes the affinity, as does the state of any ingredients (e.g. chopped, etc). 

 

From what I understand, and what I saw in my test (albeit very small test), a rare cooking container doesn't mix up affinity. Are you sure that all those things, when of an item rarity, will mix up the affinity? And is it a different affinity for all the rarity stages? 

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An active beehive producing honey from crop tiles will slightly increase the yield from those tiles.  Halfway and almost ripe fields produce the most honey boost, with only weeds and freshly sown providing no boost at all. 

 

Does this mean it increases the crop yields of those tiles, or just the honey production?

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If any ingredient, cooker, tool or container involved in the recipe is rare, that also changes the affinity,

 

In my recent test, container (ie. frying pan) rarity does NOT change the affinities.

Cooker rarity does though.

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does the QL of the container effect on the ql of the meal ?

 

does the QL of the meal effect to affinity timer ?

 

does Opulence have affect on the affinity timer ?

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8 hours ago, joedobo said:

From what I understand, and what I saw in my test (albeit very small test), a rare cooking container doesn't mix up affinity. Are you sure that all those things, when of an item rarity, will mix up the affinity? And is it a different affinity for all the rarity stages? 

 

5 hours ago, Jaz said:

 

In my recent test, container (ie. frying pan) rarity does NOT change the affinities.

Cooker rarity does though.

 

Sorry, you're quite right - container rarity doesn't change the affinity.

 

8 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

If its underground and in a structure, does that still give the underground bonus?

 

Also in regards to Bee's, it mentions the max quantity of bee's wax, how much honey will the hive hold? I have one hive building up to find out, but be nice to know.

 

Underground and structure bonuses should stack.  The max amount of honey you can fit in a hive (assuming nothing else is in there) is 2160kg; sugar or wax (can have up to 20 wax) will reduce that.

 

8 hours ago, Rocklobstar said:

Does this mean it increases the crop yields of those tiles, or just the honey production?

 

Both - crop tiles (at the right ages, in the right seasons) will give some nectar (honey / wax) yield, and when bees generate product from a farm tile, the crop yield for that tile is slightly increased.

 

4 hours ago, redtiger said:

does the QL of the container effect on the ql of the meal ?

does the QL of the meal effect to affinity timer ?

does Opulence have affect on the affinity timer ?

 

QL of cooking container will affect QL of food items made in it.  Higher QL food (and rare food) gives longer temporary affinities.  Opulence does not affect affinity timer.

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Which alcoholic drinks improve over time, is it all of them or just some. So far my thoughts are that it is Wine and anything distilled, but not cider, beer or mead.

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12 hours ago, Pandalet said:

 

23 hours ago, Amadee said:

In your cooking doc, it says that the shelves in the larder can be renamed.  How do you do that?  The right click menu doesn't give me an option to rename the shelves.  I am the owner of the larders and I have tried it with them secured and not secured. I have also tried it with and without locks on them.  Has anyone else been able to rename the shelves?

 

You do this by opening the larder and right-clicking on the shelf.  However, like BSBs etc, you need to be the owner of the larder - try picking it up and dropping it (or plantng it) first.

 

 

 

Ok, got it to work.  Had to empty them out, pick them up, and then replant them, but they're working now.  Thanks :)

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After eating Pandalet's One True Pizza...in what condition are my arteries...?:D

 

(sorry, couldn't resist. I'll go back to lurking :ph34r:)

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Does QL of the container affect skillgain? As in, is it better to use low-QL containers for grinding like you would with most skills?
Does QL of wine barrels give a bonus to aging wine?

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On 06/01/2017 at 11:46 PM, Korhaka said:

Which alcoholic drinks improve over time, is it all of them or just some. So far my thoughts are that it is Wine and anything distilled, but not cider, beer or mead.

 

Grape wine and distilled drinks.  Fermented drinks do not.

 

4 hours ago, Kaldari said:

After eating Pandalet's One True Pizza...in what condition are my arteries...?:D

 

(sorry, couldn't resist. I'll go back to lurking :ph34r:)

 

11a2e3ec857d0c59f127256b26f7dd24.jpg

 

Ain't dead yet :)

 

1 hour ago, Fawkes said:

Does QL of the container affect skillgain? As in, is it better to use low-QL containers for grinding like you would with most skills?
Does QL of wine barrels give a bonus to aging wine?

 

QL of wine barrels does not affect alcohol aging.  As best I can tell, container QL does not affect skill gain when cooking.

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" For positive decay drinks (like grape wine), the quality will start improving so long as the barrel is sealed; if it is not unsealed at the end of fermentation, the positive decay will start immediately.  For other liquids, no decay will occur while the barrel remains sealed. "

and

"Grape wine and distilled drinks.  Fermented drinks do not."

 

For the distilled drinks, should we leave the drinks in the barrel at the undistilled stage or distill them and then put back in the barrel to age?

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I was  yesterday looking for certain affinities and at one point i began working through the combinations of cottage pie and notice a lot of repeats and certain vegetables repeating affinities, for example every combination where i used lettuce was the same affinity where i used pumpkin.  In addition, there is almost a theme to some foods for a particular character, such as high numbers of combinations of certain foods/main ingredients resulting in affinities around shields or weapons.

 

Is there some way to organize/categorize ingredients to ensure more diversity in affinities?  96 combinations of cottage pie resulted in ~16 distinct affinities, with some of the repeats being very common, alchemy for example 8 times

 

 

16 hours ago, Pandalet said:

Ain't dead yet :)

 

That pizza may be trying to tell you something 

 

50K8Sx0.png

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1 hour ago, ClericGunem said:

Is there some way to organize/categorize ingredients to ensure more diversity in affinities?  96 combinations of cottage pie resulted in ~16 distinct affinities, with some of the repeats being very common, alchemy for example 8 times

 

I get 1680 combinations (empirically derive, I didn't test that many) and that is just with what I've found. I think you may have not found all the optional items. pm me if you want to know how I got that.

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1 hour ago, joedobo said:

I get 1680 combinations (empirically derive, I didn't test that many) and that is just with what I've found. I think you may have not found all the optional items. pm me if you want to know how I got that

 

96 was just from a subset i went with for 13 different meats i had already diced and 7-8 veggies, i.e. the simple versions and in my rare oven.  next time i test will be another subset and the remainder of the veggies and whatever else will work (found 1 non-veggie that works, so going to look for more) and compare to regular oven, which is probably closer (or double with rare vs reg oven) to your number.  i am dragging my feet until the code goes to WU, but gathering data just in case while searching for the affinities i want.

 

The other part is i want to avoid testing everything into exclusion when there is some logic that results in vast numbers of duplicate affinities.  For example your number probably includes both pumpkin and lettuce, but as far as i can tell in every case (for cottage pie) they produce the same affinity, so can toss out one of them.  If everything was as random and any complex food would give someone every possible affinity as so many people have argued then i would have at least three different recipes for every affinity and the main difference between them would be what ccfp bars they filled fastest, for example right now shrimpee gumbo and cottage pie fill all my ccfp in couple bites each from zero and cottage pie puts my nutrition at 92

 

On topic: So i was asking for some hint if there is a way to categories the ingredients, as in within the game, or confirmation it is purely id based (bitwise operations on sequential assigned object ids i presume) in which case probably easier to wait (though possible to logically extrapolate the algorithm)

 

 

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