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Arcadies

Is the light of Vynora fading?

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I see her on Valrei, but she has no missions, has named no demi-gods, and has not won a scenario that I can remember recently. In fact, I don't even think she has moved since 2015.

 

Whats happening?  What will become of her followers, like myself?

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This was done on purpose because JK template kingdoms had two gods for double the karma/etc and chance to win which wasn't fair to MR and BL templates, but then we got player gods anyway

 

it also has literally no effect on anyone in any way

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Same as Mag , ground under the boots of new gods..

Just wish Mag had free no-lost faith switch like Najho.

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7 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

it also has literally no effect on anyone in any way

 

Other than roleplay, right?  But who does that anymore anyway...

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8 minutes ago, Arcadies said:

 

Other than roleplay, right?  But who does that anymore anyway...

 

It was a valrei balance decision, nothing to do with roleplay was a matter of at the time(before player gods) 1 kingdom had 2 missions to progress on valrei and the other had 1 which was extremely unbalanced so vyn was chosen over fo to be stationary and not give missions any more. On epic winning a valrei  scenario spawns the tomes dropped off uniques on freedom and that was the only way period to get them so it was a needed fix at the time.

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...or, as meaningful as you choose to make her.  I love Nahjo, but aside from gameplay mechanics, the only 'meaning' any of the gods have is what you ascribe to them.  If someone else getting access to a cool spell list makes your god(ess) less meaningful in your eyes, well, that's a bit of a sad reflection on you.

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I meant no possibility of doing missions, do not have a priest.

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From a purely PvE point of view, where missions mean a small diversion from the daily grind and the possibility of 30 mins of SB, I'd say the more the merrier.  If the PvP balance thing isn't such an issue anymore, perhaps we could start getting Vynora missions again?  Or maybe just on Freedom, even?  It's pretty minor, since missions on PvE are really just another way to get SB (and perhaps a tiny bit of karma).

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Also vyn followers/priests never get the various buffs due to not having missions.

 

I miss those.

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Remember the good ol' days?

 

The old Gods remember.

 

Newfangled demigods, ######.

Edited by Makarus
dangolbamboozleddagnabbit
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20 hours ago, Wonka said:

From a purely PvE point of view, where missions mean a small diversion from the daily grind and the possibility of 30 mins of SB, I'd say the more the merrier.  If the PvP balance thing isn't such an issue anymore, perhaps we could start getting Vynora missions again?  Or maybe just on Freedom, even?  It's pretty minor, since missions on PvE are really just another way to get SB (and perhaps a tiny bit of karma).

 It's not just a PvP balance issue, it's an overall balance issue...

When people saw the Nahjo spell list, everybody and their grandmother jumped on the Nahjo train.

The spells weren't new, but all of the most used spells were on Nahjo (Strongwall, WoA, Light Token, Courier, Cure Light, Dominate, Dirt, Mind Stealer, Life Transfer, and Genesis).

It became the meta. With the 3 original deities, there was an area for each of them to take.

Fo - Nature related skills (farming, digging)

Vynora - Enchanting

Magranon - Fighting, Mining

Libila - PvP(only), Thievery

 but now there's Nahjo, who basically got it all and had the easiest favor item up until recently...

 

This is why, not only Vynora, but all of the original deities are fading.

 

There is so much unbalance and the devs keep trying to cover it up by adding more unbalancing items to the game on top of epic stuff which came to PvE for whatever reasons...

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3 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

on top of epic stuff which came to PvE for whatever reasons.

 

Your guess is as good as ours why it was like that.  Even gave ya tomes =D

Edited by Darklords

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On 12/6/2016 at 0:53 PM, Stanlee said:

Also vyn followers/priests never get the various buffs due to not having missions.

 

I miss those.

 

maybe freedom is different, but on epic it's kingdom based so if I do missions for Mag for MR and get the spirit buffs from doing missions, I get the buff even though I'm not a Mag follower

on freedom all the gods are freedom kingdom so you should always get it

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Player gods was one of many things that pulled the game in a direction deviating from the logical course, but there's been so many pulls like that that there isn't even a direction anymore. Just different roads all leading to random MMO influences from everyone's favourite game.

 

PS. When's the next round of Challenge going live? It took 10 months of developer time to make, so surely there is a plan for it?

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23 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

 It's not just a PvP balance issue, it's an overall balance issue...

When people saw the Nahjo spell list, everybody and their grandmother jumped on the Nahjo train.

The spells weren't new, but all of the most used spells were on Nahjo (Strongwall, WoA, Light Token, Courier, Cure Light, Dominate, Dirt, Mind Stealer, Life Transfer, and Genesis).

It became the meta. With the 3 original deities, there was an area for each of them to take.

Fo - Nature related skills (farming, digging)

Vynora - Enchanting

Magranon - Fighting, Mining

Libila - PvP(only), Thievery

 but now there's Nahjo, who basically got it all and had the easiest favor item up until recently...

 

This is why, not only Vynora, but all of the original deities are fading.

 

There is so much unbalance and the devs keep trying to cover it up by adding more unbalancing items to the game on top of epic stuff which came to PvE for whatever reasons...

 

I still don't see the problem here - one god is better than the others (for a reasonably common definition of better); so what?  Just because I chose to take the easy route and have access to a number of useful spells in one priest doesn't take away from your wanting to stick to Vynora (or Magranon, or Fo).  If finding flavour in following a particular god enhances your game play, then do it - it doesn't matter what other players choose!  My play is enhanced by having the spells I use the most (genesis, strongwall, light ball, mend, plus the occasional woa) in one priest.  Basically, you want things to be more restricted in your own play, but you're demanding that everyone else be restricted too.

 

I like the added flavour of spells and gods on PvE.  I don't want to play PvP, and I like that there are options on Freedom that only really add flavour (wizard spells, dragon armour, etc) - the gains are minimal, but they add flavour and richness of choices.  Balance is really only a problem on PvP, and since the PvP folks appear to be focussed on absolutely maximising every possible gain, unless the game was completely cookie cuttered, where the differences were appearence only, there will always be one path ('meta') that's better than the others.

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20 hours ago, Wonka said:

I like the added flavour of spells and gods on PvE.  I don't want to play PvP, and I like that there are options on Freedom that only really add flavour (wizard spells, dragon armour, etc) - the gains are minimal, but they add flavour and richness of choices.  Balance is really only a problem on PvP, and since the PvP folks appear to be focussed on absolutely maximising every possible gain, unless the game was completely cookie cuttered, where the differences were appearence only, there will always be one path ('meta') that's better than the others.

That's basically it though, Nahjo is like a cookie-cutter meta priest. Who really uses the original gods extensively anymore? You don't see people asking for a Mag priest for Strongwalls anymore, he's almost useless since Nahjo has his good spells. Fo? nah, you got Courier and Genesis on Nahjo added to the Mag spells. Vynora? She's still good for CoC, but Nahjo has some great spells for quick channeling compared to her, go Nahjo for Light Tokens and Dirt, then switch over and join a sermon group for Vynora (if you can find one)

There is no 'added flavour' of spells. It's a pre-randomized list of spells that are already in the game. Giving multiple sought after spells to one priest removes the need of the other priests, ruining the balance.

The player gods should have had their own fresh spell list to keep the game from where it's at now, but the devs have their heads too far up their own asses that they can't even see the real issues and try to add their own ######.

 

I don't know how long you've been playing, but the original 4 were good as they were. I'm sure in the next year we'll have an epic mission list that fills the window because of all the player gods. Epic should've stayed on Epic. If Rolf gave it more attention, I'm sure it could've turned out great, but he let it starve, and it died. There was no need for any of it to be on Freedom.

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Once again, I don't see how my having access to a priest that combines the best spells of several other gods makes any difference to you?  Nahjo has a fantastic spell list, but you don't have to follow him - if you want a Vynora priest, have a Vynora priest!  On PvE, the only competition is ones you make for yourself - there aren't any prizes for 'most valued priest'.  And with everyone getting access to crop sacrificing, Mag priests are just as useful for strongwalling as Nahjo; the vast majority of requests for a collapse I've seen don't care who does it, so long as the cost isn't over the odds, and Mag favour now costs the same as Nahjo favour.  Ditto with courier (or LT) casts.

 

Epic has its own issues, let's not conflate them.  I personally like having Epic stuff on Freedom, inasmuch as gods and tome spells are Epic stuff, but I get that not everyone shares this opinion.  PvP aside, if you choose not to follow the new gods or use the tomes, then I don't see how these changes affect you?  Balance isn't an issue here, since you're unaffected by my choices (in this regard). 

 

I understand that on PvP, Nahjo priests are considered inferior, and Tosiek (or Sme?) priests are the new OP - the usual PvE spells are less useful, but combat spells are more valuable.  Balance only becomes a useful argument when players are directly competing.

 

If it makes any difference, I've been playing Wurm for around 3 years (but didn't bother making a forum account until recently).

 

 

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Ok Wonka, to put it into pure gameplay terms...

 

Why have priests other than Nahjo if Nahjo priests can do all the good priest stuff?  What purpose does that serve from a game perspective?  Why have options when a single option is far and away better than the others?  

 

In game design terms and balance terms, this is called Power Creep.  Its when newer added aspects of the game invalidate previous aspects of the game.  From a design perspective, if an addition to the game invalidates more of the game than what you're adding, its a negative thing.  Again, from a game mechanic perspective, Nahjo removes any reason to have priests of Fo, Vynora, or Magranon.  It also invalidated the characters that were priests of those gods.  A priest of Nahjo is purely better than a priest of Fo, Vynora, or Magranon from a gameplay perspective.  Imagine a class based RPG where a class gets added that can do everything all the other classes can do.  You're arguing that its fine.  

Quote

I don't see how my having access to a priest that combines the best spells of several other gods makes any difference to you?

 

Edited by Arcadies
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