Path of Love Refresh useless?

[GoldFever 299]

4 minutes ago, Dinant said:

I seem to be the odd one out here, as I am specifically using refresh to zero out my ccfp so I can regain the skillgains I was getting before stamina got screwed up. It's hard enough to get skill gain in the 80s and 90s already.

 

Honestly I think there should be some other way to zero it out, maybe some kind of purgative that also lowers hunger? Then refresh can be changed to ignore ccfp. If ccfp is a positive thing, then another positive skill shouldn't affect it, but as long as it is largely a negative as it is now, I'm fine with it.

 

This.

 

For me, refresh is still very useful.  I get the full 5% skill gain from 99 nutrition and as a side bonus, it is an easy way to set CCFP back to zero. 

 

So you see, there are two sides to every coin, what is "useless" to some and "let's fix it", is an important feature to others.  CCFP is not an advantage in all circumstances and sometimes you just need to get rid of it.

[Shmeric 581]

As a person who has not cooked a single meal or dish since the cooking update, I am using refresh daily.

Maybe I'm missing something but the CCFP doesn't really give me any bonuses other than eat less, run further and the like. But I very much do like the skillgain bonus from 99% nutrition and the instant full belly.

One refresh keeps me going for my full gaming evening (couple hours) and I don't need to waste any time on reading or learning recipes or whatnot

 

[Stormblade 614]

LOL omfg, refresh so over powered compaired to one meal thats stupid ass easy to make that gives almost 99 nutrition, food, And ccfp AND gives an affinity.

 

Yeah right tell me another good joke.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Stormblade

[rixk 830]

6 hours ago, GoldFever said:

 

This.

 

For me, refresh is still very useful.  I get the full 5% skill gain from 99 nutrition and as a side bonus, it is an easy way to set CCFP back to zero. 

 

So you see, there are two sides to every coin, what is "useless" to some and "let's fix it", is an important feature to others.  CCFP is not an advantage in all circumstances and sometimes you just need to get rid of it.

Wasn't nutrition skillgain bonus removed in new cooking patch?

[Kadmint 528]

9 hours ago, Dinant said:

I seem to be the odd one out here, as I am specifically using refresh to zero out my ccfp so I can regain the skillgains I was getting before stamina got screwed up. It's hard enough to get skill gain in the 80s and 90s already.

 

Honestly I think there should be some other way to zero it out, maybe some kind of purgative that also lowers hunger? Then refresh can be changed to ignore ccfp. If ccfp is a positive thing, then another positive skill shouldn't affect it, but as long as it is largely a negative as it is now, I'm fine with it.

 

Interesting point of view. As I said, wanted to hear thoughts about how people actually use refresh. This truly makes me think that there are still people that find the benefits of it. Maybe I don't anymore, but some do obviously. Thank you for your comment.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by Kadmint

[Kadmint 528]

8 hours ago, Shmeric said:

As a person who has not cooked a single meal or dish since the cooking update, I am using refresh daily.

Maybe I'm missing something but the CCFP doesn't really give me any bonuses other than eat less, run further and the like. But I very much do like the skillgain bonus from 99% nutrition and the instant full belly.

One refresh keeps me going for my full gaming evening (couple hours) and I don't need to waste any time on reading or learning recipes or whatnot

 

 

It actually does affect. I use a lot of SB while crafting things hours and hours. Then I came by this one thing: I had CCFP around 95%, crafted one hour, but noticed that my sleep bonus has moved only 22 minutes. I asked from alliance have they noticed the same and said, that from CCFP the fat part actually reduces the amount of using SB. I find this very game changing. 

 

I suppose everyone can play the game as they feel the best as long as they follow the rules and dont abuse the game. This kind of conversation shows that people actually have different opinions whether something is useful or not.

[Shmeric 581]

15 minutes ago, Kadmint said:

 

It actually does affect. I use a lot of SB while crafting things hours and hours. Then I came by this one thing: I had CCFP around 95%, crafted one hour, but noticed that my sleep bonus has moved only 22 minutes. I asked from alliance have they noticed the same and said, that from CCFP the fat part actually reduces the amount of using SB. I find this very game changing.

 

I'm unable to spend all my naturally timed sleep bonus in one sitting anyway

[Ecrir 887]

15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

The exact words of the devs were "Refresh will not be changed", which is not the case at all since it now has the "set to 0 effect" which I think will errode trust between users and devs further.

 

 

In one of the earlier weekly news the devs mentioned that they wanted to adjust refresh on the amount of nutrition it gave. People objected as they saw it as a nerf, so instead the devs said they would do (these are their exact words, see the linked news topic below for the origin of the quote):

 

"After considerable feedback we have decided to not go ahead with these changes, refresh will still give 99% nutrition, but there will be other bonuses and incentive to cook. "

 

Refresh right now is exactly what they mentioned it would be in that news topic. That people instead read that refresh would not be changed is likely because they wanted to read that refresh would not be changed and because they did not really understand fccp at the time.

The version before the objections gave less nutrition and had no mention of not receiving other bonuses, so while open to interpretation, this might mean that they originally wanted to nerf nutrition and let you keep fccp with refresh. If this is so then perhaps they need to revert back to that intended version?

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ecrir

[Sila 339]

We all loose with 1,3 update and everyone know that.   

[rixk 830]

16 hours ago, MetalDragon said:

It's not really useless as it does exactly the SAME THING as it did before the cooking update. ...

No.. Previously refresh didn't remove any buffs, currently it does. Yes, those buffs weren't there earlier, but this  is now negative effect attached to refresh(personally I consider an spell, which removes my buffs, when I don't want it, as negative).

[Kadmint 528]

Just now, rixk said:

No.. Previously refresh didn't remove any buffs, currently it does. Yes, those buffs weren't there earlier, but this  is now negative effect attached to refresh(personally I consider an spell, which removes my buffs, when I don't want it, as negative).

 

Finally someone understanding what I've been trying to point out. Because I feel exactly the same.

[Rasu 561]

Refresh or cooking (and use it as a emergency button). Not like the effect of it was changed. 

[Ecrir 887]

1 hour ago, rixk said:

No.. Previously refresh didn't remove any buffs, currently it does. Yes, those buffs weren't there earlier, but this  is now negative effect attached to refresh(personally I consider an spell, which removes my buffs, when I don't want it, as negative).

 

Depends on the point of view. From one point I agree you are correct. From another point of view Refresh always modified your buffs (nutrition) by resetting all your food related stats, it still does that now. Food, Water and nutrition go to 99-100%, the others go to 0%. From that point of view MetalDragon is correct that Refresh still does what it used to do, which is resetting all your food related stats. Since fccp are new food related stats it has to reset them in order to continue to do what it used to do.

 

So I'd say you are both correct. But I'm not sure it matters who is correct, as Refresh right now does exactly what Retrograde said it would do on September 2nd.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ecrir

[Aaron_IRL 256]

I'm still over here believing that the CCFP reset was put in as a punishment for being able to keep refresh.  They had a whole new plan for refresh and sacrificing rares, but we raged to keep it like it was before.  I guess this is the part where we take our lumps. 

 

I have a hard time believing that it's anything other than a punishment.  Your CCFP degrades over time along with your nutrition, so I don't see why refresh, or sac'ing, should have any affect on CCFP. 

[rixk 830]

7 minutes ago, Aaron_IRL said:

I'm still over here believing that the CCFP reset was put in as a punishment for being able to keep refresh.  They had a whole new plan for refresh and sacrificing rares, but we raged to keep it like it was before.  I guess this is the part where we take our lumps. 

 

I have a hard time believing that it's anything other than a punishment.  Your CCFP degrades over time along with your nutrition, so I don't see why refresh, or sac'ing, should have any affect on CCFP. 

Yep, seems that way indeed. You either use one and forget the other. Refresh removes CCFP buffs, but gives 99 nutrition. Food gives CCFP buffs, but removes 99 nutrition. So if you want to have benefits of new cooking, you have to forget refresh.. making it useless as OP states.

 

I am also for what has been already suggested. As CCFP buffs go down over time, there is no real reason for refresh to remove those buffs. You would still have to eat from time to time to keep your CCFP buffs up, even if you use refresh.

[KyleBooze 451]

so which bonus is better for skill, the CCFP/temp affinity or the 99% nut with 0%CCFP?

[KillerSpike 295]

Have we establish what % gain the temp affinities give?

if you can find a "meal" that give affinity for the skill you grinding and it is 10% or more gain (to compensate for the refresh bonus) and the affinity last long enough and it push your CCFP fat high enough you can score on using less SB so you can grind longer.

 

To many if's involved so I vote for refresh to be the better one for skill gain.

Edited November 29, 2016 by KillerSpike

[Wonka 438]

Considering how much raging there was when the devs tried to change refresh last time around (I've just read back over that thread - yeesh), it's not really surprising that it's left in a slightly sucky place now.  Knowing now how the cooking stuff works, the refresh changes originally proposed make a lot more sense; I guess it was too early to spoiler such a major part of the 1.3 functionality at that stage. 

 

The biggest objection back then seems to have been that refresh was for people who hated everything about cooking, and wanted nothing to do with it.  They demanded refresh as an alternative to cooking, and that's exactly what they got.  If you don't use the cooking system at all, then refresh does exactly the same for you now as it did pre-cooking.  The folks suffering seem to be those who want to get lots of benefit from cooking stuff, without having to go to the extra effort of also maximising nutrition from it.

 

For what it's worth, my own experiences with 50ish HFC and not much else indicate that 85% nutrition and full CCFP is readily attainable using stuff we mostly had lying around the deed.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Wonka

[Ostentatio 1,970]

1 hour ago, KyleBooze said:

so which bonus is better for skill, the CCFP/temp affinity or the 99% nut with 0%CCFP?

 

Judging by staff statements and skill logs, the temporary "insight" affinity is 10%, like a normal affinity. This is approximately double what you'd get with full nutrition.

 

Full calories does reduce the amount of stamina you use with each action, like higher body stamina, so that might influence how you queue up actions and such, but generally speaking, if you can use a temporary affinity then go for it.

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

While I agree with many points mentioned here my reply is still the same:

 

Using refresh on someone could now be seen as an undesirable action (taking away another player's "choice" as folks say) and that qualifies it for use in griefing.

 

There is no protection from this under the current mechanics.

 

This needs to be fixed.

 

The only ways I can see to fix are listed below

• Put refresh under \invitations (adds in a QoL reduction)
• Make refresh usable on self only (nerf refresh further)
• Remove the reset to 0 effect when used on someone else (open to multi abuse)
• Just remove the reset to 0 effect entirely (would constitute a buff to refresh)

None of these are perfect and all but one would impact balance.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Etherdrifter

[Niki 2,278]

Why not make it fair? It's literally a waste compared to other mediation paths. Change refresh, give it full nut and full ccfp. Make sure sacs also follow this formula, stop making this game a chore and controversy for people, they want to opt out of eating, let them!

Edited November 29, 2016 by Niki

[Rasu 561]

53 minutes ago, Niki said:

Why not make it fair? It's literally a waste compared to other mediation paths. Change refresh, give it full nut and full ccfp. Make sure sacs also follow this formula, stop making this game a chore and controversy for people, they want to opt out of eating, let them!

 

It makes HFC pointless again so I do not see this happening.

[Mavv 73]

I personally do not use refresh anymore. As it is fairly easy now to raise your CCFP your food and water last longer than ever.

 

What I can see happening however is people using it on other people at a rift or a some other

function where a lot is going on and people wont notice right away.

 

Mavv

[Ecrir 887]

1 hour ago, Niki said:

Why not make it fair? It's literally a waste compared to other mediation paths. Change refresh, give it full nut and full ccfp. Make sure sacs also follow this formula, stop making this game a chore and controversy for people, they want to opt out of eating, let them!

 

I hope they never do this, Refresh and Meals trivialized the food system before, we don't need Refresh to trivialize that entire system again. The system already lets people opt of out eating right now, you don't need ccfp, but if you want it then put in effort, or buy food, like everybody else.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ecrir

[Stormblade 614]

1 hour ago, Rasu said:

 

It makes HFC pointless again so I do not see this happening.

 

31 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

 

I hope they never do this, Refresh and Meals trivialized the food system before, we don't need Refresh to trivialize that entire system again. The system already lets people opt of out eating right now, you don't need ccfp, but if you want it then put in effort, or buy food, like everybody else.

 

And again, like I said, 2 HFC and you can make a meal thats ###### ass easy to make, that negates ANY benefit you could get from Refresh.

 

so don't spout crap about refresh trivializing HFC, hell it doesn't even Trivialize jack crap.

 

And no the systems doesn't let people Opt out of eating.

 

Refresh 1 char let it stand for 4 hours, see how often you have to eat.

 

Let Same char eat that simple easy meal that I mention and you have Full Food, Full CCFP and then see how often you have to eat after 4 hours of standing around.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Stormblade