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Bees

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1 hour ago, Nestangol said:

Well. This wild beehive I found next day after update. Today, the bees had finally moved to my domestic hive (wild hive ql39, domestic ql52). So off to home with it. And this is what happened:

 

[12:58:35] You ride on the wagon as the driver.

[13:03:03] You finish loading the active bee hive.

 

[15:10:56] You finish unloading the active bee hive from the wagon.

[15:11:23] You board on the knarr as the captain. (note: no sailing between servers, just short distance inside Xanadu)

[15:11:32] You finish loading the active bee hive.

 

[15:34:37] You finish unloading the active bee hive from the knarr.

[15:34:41] You start to load the active bee hive. (loading it into my wagon)

[15:34:45] You finish loading the active bee hive. (so it still had bees there when finished loading)

 

 

[15:36:41] You start to unload the empty bee hive from the wagon.

[15:36:41] You finish unloading the empty bee hive from the wagon.

 

 

I have found 3 other beehives in wild as well, but all of them in awful travel from my place. 2 of the 3 are noisy, so i'm having domestic hives at them now, hoping for 2nd queen migrating, so if this bug hits again, at least wild hive would still be left for another try.

 

 

- Nestangol

 

 

 

no sugar or honey in your hive for the trip?

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I had placed sugar in my built hive several days before, just to see if it made any difference for migration. Now that you asked, I don't think there was any sugar left when I started transporting it. But there was honey and beeswax. I didn't note down the amounts as I didn't think it would matter for moving it. But the beehive had 0.45 honey and 0.2 beeswax after unloading it last time.

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Could someone explain in detail what happens when you put two domestic hives, with bees inside them, next to each other?

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Some specific detail on hives in the spoiler.

 

Spoiler

Regarding the area a beehive will look at, it depends on the QL of the hive. 

 

A rough guide:

1ql - 2 tile radius

10ql - 4 tile radius

25ql - 6 tile radius

50ql - 8 tile radius

75ql - 10 tile radius

90ql - 10 tile radius

95ql - 11 tile radius

 

Obviously, the larger the area that a hive can gather from, the more honey and wax it will produce.  A hive will max out at 20 wax - no more is produced until the hive holds less than 20.  Wax production depends on there being enough 'good' tiles in the hives area, and isn't regular - it will come at somewhat random intervals.

 

The best tiles for honey production are grass with flowers.  Crops between growing and (second) ripe will also produce some honey, as will plain grass and steppe during summer and spring.  Trees are best at very old, and quite variable with season - spring is best, followed by summer.

 

Hive areas can overlap, but a given tile only contributes to 1 hive.  This is similar to how alter domains work, in that tiles closer to hive A than hive B are more likely to belong to hive A, and higher ql hives will tend to win out over lower ql ones.  See numbers above for the 'influence' areas of different ql hives.

 

To illustrate the overlap, I knocked up this graphic:

68f1a7661554325ad8abd214b1fd1a40.png

 

The document will be updated to include this info in due course.

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Not that it matter because Wurm devs are always right, but...

limiting bee to tile count is dumb. people with big deeds get more. I"m okay with the more for big deeds when it comes to animals because they have strong negative effect on the game performance. But with bees does it really matter if I have 1000 hives?

 

As it sits now, i'm going to make doughnut houses off deed with a domestic hive in the middle (not a in-strucuter tile). I'll likely cut down trees in an 11 radius, fence off that area, plant flours, and finally cut down and sand an additional 10 tile radius to stop tree spread.

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2 hours ago, Pandalet said:

Some specific detail on hives in the spoiler.

 

  Hide contents

Regarding the area a beehive will look at, it depends on the QL of the hive. 

 

A rough guide:

1ql - 2 tile radius

10ql - 4 tile radius

25ql - 6 tile radius

50ql - 8 tile radius

75ql - 10 tile radius

90ql - 10 tile radius

95ql - 11 tile radius

 

Obviously, the larger the area that a hive can gather from, the more honey and wax it will produce.  A hive will max out at 20 wax - no more is produced until the hive holds less than 20.  Wax production depends on there being enough 'good' tiles in the hives area, and isn't regular - it will come at somewhat random intervals.

 

The best tiles for honey production are grass with flowers.  Crops between growing and (second) ripe will also produce some honey, as will plain grass and steppe during summer and spring.  Trees are best at very old, and quite variable with season - spring is best, followed by summer.

 

Hive areas can overlap, but a given tile only contributes to 1 hive.  This is similar to how alter domains work, in that tiles closer to hive A than hive B are more likely to belong to hive A, and higher ql hives will tend to win out over lower ql ones.  See numbers above for the 'influence' areas of different ql hives.

 

To illustrate the overlap, I knocked up this graphic:

68f1a7661554325ad8abd214b1fd1a40.png

 

The document will be updated to include this info in due course.

 

 

This is about what I have noticed and am not happy about, I was planning on 100 or more hives,the area requirement based on your figures is insane.

 

Why can the hives not 'share' the same flowers.

 

If you wanted to have optimal honey production for 25-90ql hives you would have to have a deed of flowers 100x100.

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I think we'll have to wait and see (unless someone who knows wants to tell us) how many flower tiles it takes to max a hive ( 20 waxes in x number of hours). Assuming it's possible to hit the 20 wax cap in one earth day with less then the 11x11 area of flowers we could use lower ql hives and place them closer together. 

 

Since there isn't a domain entry or exit message like with altars it would be useful if we could query the hive and have it tell us something about its feeding area.

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10 hours ago, Pandalet said:

A rough guide: 1ql - 2 tile radius, 10ql - 4 tile radius, 25ql - 6 tile radius

50ql - 8 tile radius, 75ql - 10 tile radius, 90ql - 10 tile radius, 95ql - 11 tile radius

This influence radius dependent upon the quality of the hive leads me to wonder something. Lets say a player drops a 75ql hive next to your perimeter and deed tile. Inside at 8 tiles is your hive of 50ql with 1 queen. Does this mean that your bees (queen) might well migrate into someone else's hive then? If so, since the person could plant and lock their hive on your perimeter there is really nothing you could do to prevent this from happening.

 

=Ayes=

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yes they can migrate to his hive and only thing u can do is to improve yours hive to be above his

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can we make it so flowers dont disappear on deed? also maybe trees from spreading to them?

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huge +1 to an !!!!EASY, NOT COMPLICATED, NEWBIE FRIENDLY!!!!! way of stopping trees from spreading. It could be as simple as the influence system/bee influence where tiles within range of some object won't sprout trees or any other natural alteration of terrain (grass changing to marsh, steppe).

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7 hours ago, Ayes said:

This influence radius dependent upon the quality of the hive leads me to wonder something. Lets say a player drops a 75ql hive next to your perimeter and deed tile. Inside at 8 tiles is your hive of 50ql with 1 queen. Does this mean that your bees (queen) might well migrate into someone else's hive then? If so, since the person could plant and lock their hive on your perimeter there is really nothing you could do to prevent this from happening.

 

=Ayes=

I didn't read anything about, the one and only, queen migrating from domestic hive to domestic hive.  The quality migration thing is for wild to domestic migration. Confirmation would be nice but I'd guess there is no code for queens to abandon a domestic hive for another domestic hive (unless there are two of course but still only one will leave).

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19 hours ago, joedobo said:

Not that it matter because Wurm devs are always right, but...

limiting bee to tile count is dumb. people with big deeds get more. I"m okay with the more for big deeds when it comes to animals because they have strong negative effect on the game performance. But with bees does it really matter if I have 1000 hives?

 

As it sits now, i'm going to make doughnut houses off deed with a domestic hive in the middle (not a in-strucuter tile). I'll likely cut down trees in an 11 radius, fence off that area, plant flours, and finally cut down and sand an additional 10 tile radius to stop tree spread.

 

 

27 minutes ago, joedobo said:

huge +1 to an !!!!EASY, NOT COMPLICATED, NEWBIE FRIENDLY!!!!! way of stopping trees from spreading. It could be as simple as the influence system/bee influence where tiles within range of some object won't sprout trees or any other natural alteration of terrain (grass changing to marsh, steppe).

 

...yeah, because passive-aggressive snarkyness is a great way to get someone to expend effort to do what you want.  If only we had a forum especially for suggestions, you could try making suggestions in a way that didn't prompt "geez, this guy is unpleasant" as their first reaction...

 

Based on what's been posted, it seems like you only need to worry about overlapping if you want absolutely maximal yields.  If you just want some honey and wax over time, then some overlap is probably ok - in the examples above, the larger tile still draws from 400 tiles, while the smaller one still has something over 100 tiles, even with the overlap.

 

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19 hours ago, Pandalet said:

Some specific detail on hives in the spoiler.

 

  Hide contents

Regarding the area a beehive will look at, it depends on the QL of the hive. 

 

A rough guide:

1ql - 2 tile radius

10ql - 4 tile radius

25ql - 6 tile radius

50ql - 8 tile radius

75ql - 10 tile radius

90ql - 10 tile radius

95ql - 11 tile radius

 

Obviously, the larger the area that a hive can gather from, the more honey and wax it will produce.  A hive will max out at 20 wax - no more is produced until the hive holds less than 20.  Wax production depends on there being enough 'good' tiles in the hives area, and isn't regular - it will come at somewhat random intervals.

 

The best tiles for honey production are grass with flowers.  Crops between growing and (second) ripe will also produce some honey, as will plain grass and steppe during summer and spring.  Trees are best at very old, and quite variable with season - spring is best, followed by summer.

 

Hive areas can overlap, but a given tile only contributes to 1 hive.  This is similar to how alter domains work, in that tiles closer to hive A than hive B are more likely to belong to hive A, and higher ql hives will tend to win out over lower ql ones.  See numbers above for the 'influence' areas of different ql hives.

 

To illustrate the overlap, I knocked up this graphic:

68f1a7661554325ad8abd214b1fd1a40.png

 

The document will be updated to include this info in due course.

 

You say "the best tiles for honey" are grass with flowers and you speak of "good" tiles for wax.

Do the flowers count as "good" tiles for wax, or do you need other tile-types if you want to focus on wax making? (I'm really focussing on waxmaking to make sealing kits, but so far my 2 domestic hives surrounded by flowers and grass (and 5 cedar trees closeby) havent given wax for a long time.

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4 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

queen will move from one domestic hive to another of higher ql

Thanks for the head's up on that JakeRivers.

 

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what this means is, its possible for someone to steal your bee's if you have your hive too close to your perimeter

 

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3 hours ago, Lycanthropic said:

 

You say "the best tiles for honey" are grass with flowers and you speak of "good" tiles for wax.

Do the flowers count as "good" tiles for wax, or do you need other tile-types if you want to focus on wax making? (I'm really focussing on waxmaking to make sealing kits, but so far my 2 domestic hives surrounded by flowers and grass (and 5 cedar trees closeby) havent given wax for a long time.

 

Good tiles for honey are also good for wax.  Wax needs a slightly better tile than honey, and the production of honey is a little steadier over time (i.e. wax production will be less regular). 

 

Regarding overlap, you will get less product when hives overlap, but this is only a problem if you want absolute optimal (i.e. maximum possible) gains.  So long as you're not putting hives on the edges of deserts or something, and you provide some spacing, you should still get some honey and wax.  The QL area illustrations above should help with spacing if you're worried.  Absolute optimal would be a very high ql hive, surrounded by flowers.

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3 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

queen will move from one domestic hive to another of higher ql

 

Yep, had this happen on my deed

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4 hours ago, Wonka said:

 

 

 

...yeah, because passive-aggressive snarkyness is a great way to get someone to expend effort to do what you want.  If only we had a forum especially for suggestions, you could try making suggestions in a way that didn't prompt "geez, this guy is unpleasant" as their first reaction...

 

Based on what's been posted, it seems like you only need to worry about overlapping if you want absolutely maximal yields.  If you just want some honey and wax over time, then some overlap is probably ok - in the examples above, the larger tile still draws from 400 tiles, while the smaller one still has something over 100 tiles, even with the overlap.

 

Even if I was nice it wouldn't make a difference. But, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said anything because I know what the outcome is going to be (based on my 8+ years of playing and being active on forum) no matter what I do.

 

I don't see where you're coming up with the basis. I see how large of an area is being checked but what I don't see is how many, say flower tiles, it takes to get 20 waxes in 24 hours. It's not a big deal if this isn't explained. In a couple weeks I can just pull it from WU and come up with some simulations for what's best in my situation.

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I wonder if a better way would be to give each type of tile a "Bee Value" that gets divided evenly among every hive in range (with hive range based on hive QL), and hive output scales with it's accumulated "Bee value". Seems more intuitive than reusing the domain mechanics (which I don't really like in the first place).

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given the hive domain area, if you make all the hives the same quality level and space them out then you wont have the problem with one hive being taken over by others domain. Ive had hives not produce a thing 5 tiles away because the hives on either side overlap domains and make the center hive useless.

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 4:12 AM, Ayes said:

This influence radius dependent upon the quality of the hive leads me to wonder something. Lets say a player drops a 75ql hive next to your perimeter and deed tile. Inside at 8 tiles is your hive of 50ql with 1 queen. Does this mean that your bees (queen) might well migrate into someone else's hive then? If so, since the person could plant and lock their hive on your perimeter there is really nothing you could do to prevent this from happening.

 

=Ayes=

 

17 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

queen will move from one domestic hive to another of higher ql

 

16 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

what this means is, its possible for someone to steal your bee's if you have your hive too close to your perimeter

 

Yea, this was the concern that I was expressing. I suppose in general it won't *bee* much of a widespread problem, unless just used as a griefing mechanic if someone has a grudge for some reason. Just brought up as an awareness of what is possible as an undesirable outcome.

 

=Ayes=

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Well, if bee thieving is possible using a direct bypass of deed benefits, then the field should be balanced, and deed owners should be allowed to load/destroy hives in their perimeter.... or are we still in the testing phases of reverse psychology applied to player retention?

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queen will move from one domestic hive to another of higher ql

 

 

Is there any chance that those hives that are turning out empty on arrival, after transport by cart or wagon, had actually migrated (ie, highjacked by accident or purpose)  to some empty player hive that they passed along the route? Or would text event messages say if that was the  issue and say that the queen was migrating? 

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