chopped veggies NOT BALANCED

[Retrograde 12,013]

the chopping thing has been fixed, can now be up to 4x your COOKING skill, (not hot food cooking)

 

So with 25 cooking you'll be able to hit 100 theoretically, but essentially it works like say, creating locks, skill determines the eventual roll. Being low difficulty it won't be anything like making cordage though.

 

will chase up the bulk storage, when I helped set up the test server it was possible

[zigozag 918]

8 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

the chopping thing has been fixed, can now be up to 4x your COOKING skill, (not hot food cooking)

 

So with 25 cooking you'll be able to hit 100 theoretically, but essentially it works like say, creating locks, skill determines the eventual roll. Being low difficulty it won't be anything like making cordage though.

 

will chase up the bulk storage, when I helped set up the test server it was possible

 

You're now making up bandaids for an initially bad idea nobody wanted in the first place. Why not work on existing options? Lower difficulty for cordage rope, door locks, cloth squares, yoyos and their parts, reduce QL randomness when creating them? For instance, introduce a minimal QL cap equal to [some] percentage of related skill. This is fooling around instead of a proper redesign. There were enough discussions to come up with something better. Come on, use the feedback, please.

Edited November 20, 2016 by zigozag

[Eobersig 1,005]

34 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

I feel that Nahjo and Lib need something else than healing cover ingredients as their favored sac item. The sac items for other priests can all easily be mass produced, while the sac item for Nahjo and Lib requires hunting. Hunting is much slower and depending on where you live it can also be completely impractical (on mountains, islands, etc. Those locations all require extensive travel befor you can even start hunting). This completely changes the way these priests work for a lot of people.

 

Correct. Butchered parts are no option for some locations, certainly not for some locations on Xanadu: there are no mobs, thus you cannot hunt them.

[Noizhead 622]

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making cloth squares (5 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~78, or 12.168 favor if your god has cloth affinity.

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making door locks (10 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~76.1, or 11.58242 favor if your god has metal affinity.

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making yoyos (15 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~74.1, or 10.98162 favor if your god has wood affinity.

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making cordage (60 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~37.7, or 2.84258 favor for any deity.

 

For years, cordage has been the source of 'generic' favor for priests.  If you didn't want to fool with grinding specific skills to make specific items for specific gods, you could grind ropemaking and be adequate for any priest.  If slicing up vegetables is going to be a new way to provide generic favor for any priest, ropemaking will become redundant as a means of generating favor.

 

I do not think yet another form of favor generation is necessary, when something as simple as dialing cordage's difficulty down to 48 would put its average QL in the ballpark of 50, or 5 average favor per rope--slightly less than half as good as creating items that the deity prefers.

[Miretta 1,415]

I feel bad for all those people that even waited for a long time before they changed to make a nahjo priest, out of insecurity that it is so imbalanced that it would be reverted....

 

I can understand that you devs want to make it more balanced between priests, that it shouldn't be easy to gain the high favor items, but please, consider using something that is not based on another broken and unreliable game mechanic.
There are alot of problems with gathering animal parts:

-animals don't spawn reliably in places you could foresee

-breeding animals for slaughtering would mess up animal spawns even more

-animals are hard to find

-alot of animals in unreachable places(mountainsides)

-not enough animals for everyone

 

while all other gods have easy to gather materials, based on skill and time only, not needing any luck in finding animals.

 

please consider changing it to an item that has a similar difficulty to other double favor items, without the luck factor in it.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Miretta

[elroth 279]

2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

it has the same favour options as other priests now, it will gain ql/20 favour of the chopped vegetables like every other priest

no because they have other options that are feasible while alhemy mats is not in bulk amounts and the other priest get double favor from their options.

 

so all priest can get QL/20 choppy veggies

all priest but nahjo and libiilla can get double that with some decent level of ease, be it wood iron or cotton as base material

 

its down right impossible in the south of xana since there are almost no animals to kill.

 

can you adress this exactly and not avoid the point i am trying to make, because i really feel you are making an effort not adressing what i am saying.

you made these two priest have the worst options for favor gain now.. since their double gains are not feasible.

 

and also you are making nahjo pretty much obsolete since better favor for LT or strongwall was their only appeal. so please allow free change of faith. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by elroth

[geode 292]

28 minutes ago, zigozag said:

 

You're now making up bandaids for an initially bad idea nobody wanted in the first place. Why not work on existing options? Lower difficulty for cordage rope, door locks, cloth squares, yoyos and their parts, reduce QL randomness when creating them? For instance, introduce a minimal QL cap equal to [some] percentage of related skill. This is fooling around instead of a proper redesign. There were enough discussions to come up with something better. Come on, use the feedback, please.

 

Wrong. I wanted a balance change especially to Nahjo and favor gain and I bet they're are others that have desired the same as well, especially Players who watched their Fo priests slowly become irrelevant (for instance). I am applauding the Dev's attempt to balance priests and their favor gain.

 

Balance does not necessarily mean "raise everything up for all priests up to the easiest priest", Balance is a scale that should not be tipped too far in one direction or the other. Balance means sometimes the one or two things much better than the rest need a nerf. Balance passes in online games aren't always buffs nor should they be, otherwise all we see is power creep and a diminishing of the challenge of the game. A game should ALWAYS involve some challenge in gameplay and that has to be maintained. A game that loses it's challenge is no longer a game or a proper simulation... it's just a [censored].

 

I support your attempt Devs to balance religion in Wurm. It's a thankless job and at least your attempting to do it... which wasn't the case not so long ago with the "previous administration", not an intended insult just an observation of "management style". Mistakes will be made... but at least with the current speed of change in Wurm NOW I have hope that changes that need to be will in fact happen soon as compared to the years we used to have to wait before. If these changes aren't quite right more adjustments can be made.

Edited November 20, 2016 by geode

[Audrel 2,223]

3 minutes ago, elroth said:

no because they have other options that are feasible while alhemy mats is not in bulk amounts and the other priest get double favor from their options.

 

so all priest can get QL/20 choppy veggies

all priest but nahjo and libiilla can get double that with some decent level of ease, be it wood iron or cotton as base material

 

its down right impossible in the south of xana since there are almost no animals to kill.

 

can you adress this exactly and not avoid the point i am trying to make, because i really feel you are making an effort not adressing what i am saying.

you made these two priest have the worst options for favor gain now.. since their double gains are not feasible.

 

and also you are making nahjo pretty much obsolete since better favor for LT or strongwall was their only appeal. so please allow free change of faith. 

 

All I did was strongwall. It's better on a Mag now, like it was before I waited forever for this nerf to happen and it never did so I switched to Nahjo only to be nerfed back to worse than I was before. Unsub it. Stay unsubbed. Not worth the hassle. I'll pay someone 1s for a semi-annual "just broke the wrong wall." It's a lot cheaper than a monthly sub that is subject to change yet again in 2 years and I'm sure in hell not restarting at 0.

[elroth 279]

1 minute ago, geode said:

 

Wrong. I wanted a balance change especially to Nahjo and favor gain and I bet they're are others that have desired the same as well, especially Players who watched their Fo priests slowly become irrelevant (for instance). I am applauding the Dev's attempt to balance priests and their favor gain.

 

Balance does not necessarily mean "raise everything up for all priests up to the easiest priest", Balance is a scale that should not be tipped too far in one direction or the other. Balance means sometimes the one or two things much better than the rest need a nerf. Balance passes in online games aren't always buffs nor should they be, otherwise all we see is power creep and a diminishing of the challenge of the game. A game should ALWAYS involve some challenge in gameplay and that has to be maintained. A game that loses it's challenge is no longer a game or a proper simulation... it's just a [censored].

 

I support your attempt Devs to balance religion in Wurm. It's a thankless job and at least your attempting to do it... which wasn't the case not so long ago with the "previous administration", not an intended insult just an observation of "management style". Mistakes will be made... but at least with the current speed of change in Wurm NOW I have hope that changes that need to be will in fact happen soon as compared to the years we used to have to wait before.

 

but they have not balanced it, they just made nahjo and libilala worse then the others, since their bonus double is not feasible.. 
at least give them an item that is feasible to make a double favor option just like the rest.

balancing it would be making it more or less equal. not making it clearly harder...

[Audrel 2,223]

3 minutes ago, geode said:

 

Wrong. I wanted a balance change especially to Nahjo and favor gain and I bet they're are others that have desired the same as well, especially Players who watched their Fo priests slowly become irrelevant (for instance). I am applauding the Dev's attempt to balance priests and their favor gain.

 

Balance does not necessarily mean "raise everything up for all priests up to the easiest priest", Balance is a scale that should not be tipped too far in one direction or the other. Balance means sometimes the one or two things much better than the rest need a nerf. Balance passes in online games aren't always buffs nor should they be, otherwise all we see is power creep and a diminishing of the challenge of the game. A game should ALWAYS involve some challenge in gameplay and that has to be maintained. A game that loses it's challenge is no longer a game or a proper simulation... it's just a [censored].

 

I support your attempt Devs to balance religion in Wurm. It's a thankless job and at least your attempting to do it... which wasn't the case not so long ago with the "previous administration", not an intended insult just an observation of "management style". Mistakes will be made... but at least with the current speed of change in Wurm NOW I have hope that changes that need to be will in fact happen soon as compared to the years we used to have to wait before. If these changes aren't quite right more adjustments can be made.

 

If done 2 years ago when pointed out... Go look. We all said this was busted. Many of us waited ages to change gods because it was so obviously busted that it would surely be fixed. Right... moving on. This horse was dead before it ever got the first beating.

[elroth 279]

6 minutes ago, Audrel said:

 

If done 2 years ago when pointed out... Go look. We all said this was busted. Many of us waited ages to change gods because it was so obviously busted that it would surely be fixed. Right... moving on. This horse was dead before it ever got the first beating.

 

yeah i waited for a few months to half a year before going from fo to nahjo ( it was LT for me) 

 

[geode 292]

11 minutes ago, elroth said:

 

but they have not balanced it, they just made nahjo and libilala worse then the others, since their bonus double is not feasible.. 
at least give them an item that is feasible to make a double favor option just like the rest.

balancing it would be making it more or less equal. not making it clearly harder...

 

Like I said, changes can be made after these changes to achieve better balance. Being worried that these changes will stand for years with no adjustments whatsoever is what we had to get used to before. Wurm has a new Dev Team now. So far there is a pattern of quicker responses/adjustments/changes. I am willing to give this new team the benefit of the doubt and nerfing the OP priests favor gain I see as a step in the right direction... destination not yet reached but right direction. (Enough said from me on this, I've made the point i wished to for this discussion.)

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by geode

[geode 292]

11 minutes ago, Audrel said:

 

If done 2 years ago when pointed out... Go look. We all said this was busted. Many of us waited ages to change gods because it was so obviously busted that it would surely be fixed. Right... moving on. This horse was dead before it ever got the first beating.

 Wurm was under control of Rolf at that time. New Dev team. Enough said.

 

[Audrel 2,223]

1 minute ago, geode said:

 Wurm was under control of Rolf at that time. New Dev team. Enough said.

 

 

And $10 less a month from me. Ask me if I care, geode. I'm down to 1 sub out of 4 previous. I'm guessing I'm not the only one. Enough said.

[elroth 279]

7 minutes ago, geode said:

 

Like I said, changes can be made after these changes to achieve better balance. Being worried that these changes will stand for years with no adjustments whatsoever is what we had to get used to before. Wurm has a new Dev Team now. So far there is a pattern of quicker responses/adjustments/changes. I am willing to give this new team the benefit of the doubt and nerfing the OP priests favor gain I see as a step in the right direction... destination not yet reached but right direction. (Enough said from me on this, I've made the point i wished to for this discussion.)

 

i wish i shared your faith but i dont.

 

the PVP changes, and delay of them, epic.. and not this. it might be the straw that broke the camels back for me.. 

[Ecrir 887]

17 minutes ago, geode said:

 

Like I said, changes can be made after these changes to achieve better balance. Being worried that these changes will stand for years with no adjustments whatsoever is what we had to get used to before. Wurm has a new Dev Team now. So far there is a pattern of quicker responses/adjustments/changes. I am willing to give this new team the benefit of the doubt and nerfing the OP priests favor gain I see as a step in the right direction... destination not yet reached but right direction. (Enough said from me on this, I've made the point i wished to for this discussion.)

 

 

And it can also be delayed till a few weeks after 1.3 so the entire thing can be added to the game is one nicely balanced package. There's no benefit to rushing a half assed balance change into the game, at all. It could certainly be done in steps, but then this would be the proper steps to take:

 

1.3: chopped vegetables as new sac item for all priests, no changes to favored sac items of any priests.

a few weeks later: Balance changes to bring all favored sac items in line with each other (nacho/lib veggies, vyn yoyos)

[Jaz 2,665]

My big points that are upsetting:

 

2 days notice? Really? Bye bye my huge garlic stock. With a month warning I would have gone to reprem the Nahjos and soend all the veggies on grind.

 

No deity switch as nothing big happened? Now Nahjo has no usable 2x favor item. Butchered gland is a joke, you use several k of sacc items per casting session. All other priests have easy to acquire mats, now Nahjo nerfed to hell, only chopped (and so rng lowered ql compared to mats) at standard favor level.

 

This means I wont reprem my 2 Nahjos,  dont wat to go through all the  faith path again after switchinh to Fo.

 

Easy solution could be simply tobe down crops like you did with SotG.

 

Additionally. Come on, Mag and kitchen? Pffff... there goes the last bits of role play and lore

Edited November 20, 2016 by Jaz

[McGarnicle 1,463]

1 hour ago, Noizhead said:

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making cloth squares (5 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~78, or 12.168 favor if your god has cloth affinity.

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making door locks (10 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~76.1, or 11.58242 favor if your god has metal affinity.

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making yoyos (15 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~74.1, or 10.98162 favor if your god has wood affinity.

With 90 skill and a QL90 tool, making cordage (60 difficulty) gets you an average item QL of ~37.7, or 2.84258 favor for any deity.

 

For years, cordage has been the source of 'generic' favor for priests.  If you didn't want to fool with grinding specific skills to make specific items for specific gods, you could grind ropemaking and be adequate for any priest.  If slicing up vegetables is going to be a new way to provide generic favor for any priest, ropemaking will become redundant as a means of generating favor.

 

I do not think yet another form of favor generation is necessary, when something as simple as dialing cordage's difficulty down to 48 would put its average QL in the ballpark of 50, or 5 average favor per rope--slightly less than half as good as creating items that the deity prefers.

 

Please dial rope making so that it is more in line with chopping veggies. Otherwise, this change will negatively affect those who have skilled up ropemaking.

[zigozag 918]

1 hour ago, geode said:

Wrong. I wanted a balance change

However I was talking about the specific change involving chopped vegetables.

 

Anyway...

1 hour ago, geode said:

It's a thankless job and at least your attempting to do it.

my biggest issue with this is i don't see any job, any work being done. This is a half-assed attempt at best, made up last night in despair of trying to tie up as many game aspects as possible to the cooking update (which might otherwise receive too little attention considering the time spent on it), thrown in our faces 2 days before the patch, leaving literally no time to prepare to it in any way, without any real thought and design behind it.

 

Now to those counting RNG checks:

          You're only half-right. Don't forget the difficulty difference for different actions. Also, specifically about Nahjo channeling grind. It is not cheap. I know that the oldest 90+ channeling priests might have had torn their hair seeing how much lower investments are needed on Nahjo, but they're not low anyway. Channeling with raw veggies' sacrificing is not quick and easy. It is still the most expensive skill in the game and is still very random in its results. Veggies do not appear magically as well. Farms need to be built and maintained. Even if you only sow and harvest, a big enough to feed the grind farm will take your whole evening or your whole day away. You will not have freedom to choose, to avoid it, to take a break when you wish. Build a big farm and your gaming is now scheduled. You will have to log in on  certain day  no matter what and spend hours harvesting and resowing. Unless you're buying veggies, of course.

         Another thing is they don't magically become 90ql. 90 farming takes months and a lot of dedication. Should you not expect consistant satisfying gameplay after months of hard work instead of enjoying the game? I don't think so.

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by zigozag

[Pashka 707]

Please leave ropemaking be.  I haven't seen many  good changes yet that haven't made things more difficult.  This is one skill that doesn't need any additional challenges.

[Miretta 1,415]

14 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Please leave ropemaking be.  I haven't seen many  good changes yet that haven't made things more difficult.  This is one skill that doesn't need any additional challenges.

there are no changes in ropemaking....

[Thorakkanath 444]

For this sort of 'implementation' and 'keeping the community informed' someone should get fired. If a player does something bad he gets punished, why shouldn't staff members (that affect with their actions much more than the local environment) also be held responsible for their actions? They are paid out of the pool created by the playerbase afterall

 

Do the people that came up with this way of keeping the community informed even understand that they are treating everyone like they are idiots? or maybe this is indeed how we as a community are perceived.....

 

Now to the problem at hand: why even consider a half-patched solution to religion? Want to fix the balance - then PLEASE just rethink religion as a whole - it is SEVERELY broken (on Xanadu at least its even more massively broken)

 

And no one cares because "HEY, religion is rng so gl proving anything"...that is such a healthy attitude... - at least 3 topics made by me in bugs in the past 2 years...ignored because...who cares about one dude complaining

Edited November 20, 2016 by Thorakkanath

[joedobo 1,187]

news quote " The initial favour gain will be .5 favour per 10ql, capping out at 5 favour for 100ql. "

 

ql^2 * constant = get price in irons, 5c is 1 favor.

25c for 100ql;

2500 i / 10,000 = 0.25 constant.

 

I don't know how RNG will affect the conversion from farm veggies to chopped veggies. As it stands the value is 25% that of cordage or 50% of mooring rope. Only way I could see this as being a buff for other priests is if RNG effect on chopping is basically non-existent.

 

 

also, I don't have a Nacho priest but I think giving them a double favor item that is unreasonable to mass produce is a mistake.

 

[Redd 4,281]

Boo hoo, Nahjo and lib had it easy for ages, now time to be brought back in line with all other priests.

 

+1 for this change

Edited November 20, 2016 by Redd

[kochinac 1,395]

4 minutes ago, Thorakkanath said:

Do the people that came up with this way of keeping the community informed even understand that they are treating everyone like they are idiots? or maybe this is indeed how we as a community are perceived.....

This. Stop treating us as bloody idiots. You're announcing this update for so long and i was so thrilled with, and now you remember to tell us about this? This is not the first outrage caused by official public relation with customers...