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Pardigan

Fatigue system needs to be looked at

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I'm surprised at how someone is able to play for 16 hours straight without missing a click. Don't you guys usually step away from the computer to cook, clean, wash up or use the bathroom? 

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2 hours ago, lolmaster said:

I'm surprised at how someone is able to play for 16 hours straight without missing a click. Don't you guys usually step away from the computer to cook, clean, wash up or use the bathroom? 

South Park World of Warcraft comes to mind :lol:

 

Though not making a dig at anyone, just a really funny episode for gamers imho.

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4 hours ago, lolmaster said:

 Don't you guys usually step away from the computer to cook, clean, wash up or use the bathroom? 


Yes.   Throw go to work in there.   Hitting the fatigue wall is far easier than it should be.  

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4 hours ago, lolmaster said:

I'm surprised at how someone is able to play for 16 hours straight without missing a click. Don't you guys usually step away from the computer to cook, clean, wash up or use the bathroom? 

 

It doesn't take anywhere near this long to demolish your fatigue, in fact its pretty easy to wear it down over a couple days or so because of how poorly it regens. Also how it uses 1second for even starting an action, Arium lost 30+ minutes the other day for smelting some tools down into iron....which...has no timer at all.

Edited by Nadroj
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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

@Nadrojcould be a bug.. or a feature... one of the odds that you eventually learn in wurm with time, something that mostly old/experienced players know and rarely reaches the pages of the wiki.

 

Positive side?.. Now @Ariumknows that if fatigue is an issue.. next time he could smelt that with an alt.

 

On 5/8/2017 at 8:38 AM, Nadroj said:

It doesn't take anywhere near this long to demolish your fatigue, ...

It takes hours and hours and hours and hours of constant work actions, not counting the time for stamina recovery, food/bio breaks and physical fatigue irl, eye / finger pain, rests, etc;  It's hard to believe somebody wants 24/7 marathon playing wurm w/o breaks with no side effects ever, every day..

It's ~'(gamer)normal' to do this once a week/end/ or something like that.. but every day? Also to realize the problem and what causes it.. and be unable to adapt?

 

btw.. holy cow... 'some tools'....

30 minuts alone.. x 60 sec = 1800sec.... some tools means 1800+ items ?

 

Edited by Finnn

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19 minutes ago, Finnn said:

@Nadrojcould be a bug.. or a feature... one of the odds that you eventually learn in wurm with time, something that mostly old/experienced players know and rarely reaches the pages of the wiki.

 

Positive side?.. Now @Ariumknows that if fatigue is an issue.. next time he could smelt that with an alt.

 

It takes hours and hours and hours and hours of constant work actions, not counting the time for stamina recovery, food/bio breaks and physical fatigue irl, eye / finger pain, rests, etc;  It's hard to believe somebody wants 24/7 marathon playing wurm w/o breaks with no side effects ever, every day..

It's ~'(gamer)normal' to do this once a week/end/ or something like that.. but every day? Also to realize the problem and what causes it.. and be unable to adapt?

 

btw.. holy cow... 'some tools'....

30 minuts alone.. x 60 sec = 1800sec.... some tools means 1800+ items ?

 

i first reported the smelting as a bug but since its actually listed as a fatigue action in WU its not a bug. also its been added to my list of useless garbage actions that you should never use again, also because of the fact that most items yield so little junk ql iron that mining it with decent skill is probably a faster way to aquire the same amount of iron and just sacrifice the junk next time.

since sacrificing doesnt need fatigue.

for a 30 seconds action.

BECAUSE WURM.

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Smelting is a fantasticly useful feature; if you're not finding that, then I have to guess that you're either doing it wrong or using it in inappropriate situations.  Sure, recovering the iron from a random 20ql large anvil you found lying around probably isn't worth the effort.  But recovering a load of 90ql steel just might be.

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3 hours ago, Finnn said:

@Nadrojcould be a bug.. or a feature... one of the odds that you eventually learn in wurm with time, something that mostly old/experienced players know and rarely reaches the pages of the wiki.

 

Positive side?.. Now @Ariumknows that if fatigue is an issue.. next time he could smelt that with an alt.

 

It takes hours and hours and hours and hours of constant work actions, not counting the time for stamina recovery, food/bio breaks and physical fatigue irl, eye / finger pain, rests, etc;  It's hard to believe somebody wants 24/7 marathon playing wurm w/o breaks with no side effects ever, every day..

It's ~'(gamer)normal' to do this once a week/end/ or something like that.. but every day? Also to realize the problem and what causes it.. and be unable to adapt?

 

btw.. holy cow... 'some tools'....

30 minuts alone.. x 60 sec = 1800sec.... some tools means 1800+ items ?

 

The force of the ego behind your statements is enough to make even me take a double take...jesus listen to yourself? Did you seriously just "listen here son you'll learn over time" me? I've played this game 10 years sonnyjimboboykid xD ohh man...i can't...i just...on a scale of one to even. I can't.

 

Right...think i'm done laughing at that appalling egotrip lets look at the rest

"If Arium wants to play the game he has to use another account to get things done duh!" - Backwards thinking, the game should not be designed to force players to have to create additional characters just to do something so simple....i shouldn't need to explain why it's silly we already have these arguments about priests having to be alts which at least is a bigger thing than "MAKE AN ALT TO SMELT LOL". We shouldn't need to subvert bad mechanics, we should improve them as we're trying to discuss here.

 

What effect does it honestly have on you if it takes hours or weeks of continuous play to lower fatigue? People have the right and freedom to play how they want to and it's not up to a game's designer, nor was it ever really Rolf's intent, to force players to stop playing when they are legitimately trying to just enjoy the game. This feature was implemented a long time ago when macro detection in wurm was far less advanced and Rolf himself stated that it existed to catch macro's out. Not stop people enjoying themselves because he or anyone else has the right to stop you playing within the rules.

 

Normal is whatever the hell a person wants normal to be for them, it's not up to you.

 

As for 1800 items, i believe we've already covered how intensely buggy this system is, iirc it wasn't anywhere near that many but fatigue, as the OP suggests...needs looking into badly.

 

This and many other buggy things with how it is reduced and regained are why it is in fact incredibly easy to hit the fatigue cap and many people do. Just because you don't doesn't mean you need to take a crap on those people...how does it even affect you!?

Are we supposed to believe this peculiar vendetta against players who hit fatigue cap is your holier than thou "i'm protecting you from yourselves" campaign or are you just suggesting we're all cheating?

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler
On 5/8/2017 at 3:16 PM, Nadroj said:

What effect does it honestly have on you if it takes hours or weeks of continuous play to lower fatigue? People have the right and freedom to play how they want to and it's not up to a game's designer, nor was it ever really Rolf's intent, to force players to stop playing when they are legitimately trying to just enjoy the game.

You play for 10 years and cant get used to this, ok

 

For better or worse.. it was intentional mechanic, added as simple anti bot measure or it had something more to it.. ( I think I gave enough reasons why this mechanic is good to remain, but nobody cares )

 

Macroers using the current amount of fatigue time at 100% are scary enough.. no need to explain how somebody with more time at their disposal could outskill olders players with or w/o playing manually...

 

One of the things in wurm that's different from WU is the skill/time scaling.. and how much harder it is to build up your character.. and you want to break that wall.:mellow:

 

"This and many other buggy things with how it is reduced and regained are why it is in fact incredibly easy to hit the fatigue cap and many people do."

Under 10 names on forums complain about it.. and small or decent % of the players knows that there's a fatigue demon counting their actions, rest(MAJORITY OF PLAYERS) do not even know that there's fatigue system in the game.

 

About the quote.. I think it's ok to keep some constants in the game, I believe that a good % of the players is playing only 4 to 6hours a day and that's OK, it's also OK if somebody have 10-12-16 or 24hours and wans to play the game - All that is acceptable..

You do not lose fatigue all the time.. with average gameplay... you do if you never move from a tile and constantly work.

 

Edited by Finnn

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@NadrojJimi Hendrix has a lyric I live by, "I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to."

 

I'm totally with ya on the freedom part.  Absolutely.

The only part that I really would have to push back on, though, is the role of a game designer in how you play the game they're designing.  It's very much up to them, and whatever they personally feel would be best for the game they envision, and are developing.  End of the day, it's their food on the table.

 

With fatigue, perhaps it makes being a level 90 that much more special for a longer time.  Fatigue makes it harder to catch up, or if not harder, at least makes it take longer.  The old timers can maintain their hegemony longer.  Rolf clearly didn't want to limit a PvPer's ability to catch up, bad for the game.  High level crafters being able to enjoy their status longer, arguably perhaps maybe good for the game.

Or perhaps the thought was towards the more casual player.  Maybe fatigue is meant to keep people from pulling away from the crowd too quickly. 

 

Just speculating, but you see my point.

 

@Finnn"get an alt," imho, is not the answer.  If the system is meant to do something in particular, and bypassing it is just a matter of getting an alt, something's wrong with the system.  Play within the confines of the game, or don't.  But one can't simultaneously tell others to play within the confines of the game, and then just suggest they bypass them entirely with xyz simple technique. 

That's like telling people you have nothing but respect for the law and speed limits, so why don't they just get a radar detector if they want to speed.  Rather incongruous.

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I'd agree that the game designer has that power and in some regards should, but as i said in my post....Rolf never wanted to, he said himself it was about macro checks not artificially controlling how people play. My feeling is that there are far better ways to try and control this idea of keeping players from "pulling away from the rest of the herd" than basically abusing an old macro check mechanic to do so. If that is the intent of the devs then we should have a new or reworked mechanic for it. But i'd say they don't want that or we'd still have skill decay over 70 like we used to.


If my logic is sound this far then it stands to reason then that any player reaching fatigue cap legitimately without macros, whether it be one or a thousand means the intended design of this feature is failing and should, as suggested...be looked at.

Edited by Nadroj
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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

@Reylaark I am against alts.. alltogether .. but anyway...

The only reason I mentioned alts is because just about anyone playing the game.. - have at least 1 more char, besides their main.

 

Edited by Finnn
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On 07/05/2017 at 6:51 PM, Finnn said:

LOL:lol:

If you had a job/school and healthy sleep.. you'd have enough time to play every spare minute.. that is left, and not ever see that fatigue problem..

Playing doesn't mean constantly spamming creation/improving/and working on things, oddly you somehow do just that for excessive amount of time, and the game is the problem? Fix your habits, game have plenty to offer when you actually play it.

4
 
 

I have a job thanks, it just involves long periods of 'nothing to do' on some days and absolutely everything to do on other days - Wurm fills that void of boredom. As for being 'glued to a computer', not so much, plenty of 15~30min breaks where I just walk away from the PC each day; coffee/smoke break, house cleaning, looking after the animals and other things (shopping etc), yet still hit the fatigue wall.

Don't be so presumptuous.

 

Character 1: Grinds 10+ hours a day, doesn't hit fatigue 'ever'.

Character 2: Grinds <8 hours/day, hits fatigue, repeatedly.

The only difference, one of them is really old and one of them is a new character. Somethings obviously bugged either way.

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

:rolleyes:

Spoiler

0 bait somebody else, not interested.. you had to edit that one line.. :facepalm:

On 5/9/2017 at 3:28 AM, Zerocool said:

Who is this newbie who doesn't know who Nadroj is? Or about alts?

 

On 5/9/2017 at 0:07 PM, Drathania said:

I have a job thanks, it just involves long periods of 'nothing to do' on some days and absolutely everything to do on other days - Wurm fills that void of boredom. As for being 'glued to a computer', not so much, plenty of 15~30min breaks where I just walk away from the PC each day; coffee/smoke break, house cleaning, looking after the animals and other things (shopping etc), yet still hit the fatigue wall.

Don't be so presumptuous. Finn: I have my reasons to 'be', also I have hit fatigue 2 or 3 times(only remembering 2 for sure).. with a year break inbetween to forget fatigue's existence. I am not just writing random things... I have hit the fatigue and learned to work less and still enjoy the game and still skill up efficiently.

 

Character 1: Grinds 10+ hours a day, doesn't hit fatigue 'ever'.

Character 2: Grinds <8 hours/day, hits fatigue, repeatedly.

The only difference, one of them is really old and one of them is a new character. Somethings obviously bugged either way.

Finn: No idea what you're talking about.... unless there's some legacy code bugging newer/older characters and fatigue usage..

 

@DrathaniaYou are skilling 2 characters from time to time.. not 24/7 than.. you already have some schedule for playing longer and taking breaks.. is it that hard to work around the fatigue you have on your characters? Aren't you happy to go out, fight with the neighbours:lol: or watch a movie.. idk.. catch up on a tv show you like etc.. while your fatigue recovers in half to one day, once it's fully depleted?(you're already accomplished wurm celebrity if you reach that)
You also seem to reach fatigue on not just 1 but almost 2 characters.. and some people use 4-6-10 possibly more alts at once... do you think there should be a limitation somewhere? How is a new player or old one with 1 character going to catch up to the amount of work you're able to throw out there in the sandbox? Remember that small % of the players reaches the 0 fatigue or drops low...:wacko:(that is a GUESS of course)
(You want a proof?.. Go ask in CA-Help how often players ask wtf is fatigue and why the plank wont stick to the wall for the next 1min-3hours...)
 

It is not a problem of efficiently grinding skills... there are affinities to buy, affinity food, sleep bonus/powders, imbue, runes, 90-100+ casts are so much easier to find.

It's about work being done.. faster, sooner, un-wurm like..

 

Edited by Finnn

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6 hours ago, Drathania said:

Character 1: Grinds 10+ hours a day, doesn't hit fatigue 'ever'.

Character 2: Grinds <8 hours/day, hits fatigue, repeatedly.

The only difference, one of them is really old and one of them is a new character.

 

Which one is really old, and I presume, more skilled, and which one is the new one?

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Bump, didn't see this mentioned in the Roadmap so thought maybe I'd bump it up.   Maybe it slipped the devs minds.    And slightly off topic but might I add, before adding more stuff, stop for a sec and consider a serious effort to fixing broken mechanics and long standing bugs.    New stuff is good, but it never makes up for the long lasting problems, fatigue being just one of many broken mechanics/bugs.

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Can we get a fix to Xanalag? Its been there since I started and apparently much much longer. Or is it now considered an unintended feature? :D

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17 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

Can we get a fix to Xanalag? Its been there since I started and apparently much much longer. Or is it now considered an unintended feature? :D

It's an evil plan to sell more golden mirrors.  We've all face-planted into lagged doors so many times, we'll need those mirrors just for the rhinoplasty! :P

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I have the fastest sideways sailing boat in all of Xanadu. Lets race.

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Bump again.   Fix this.   No point in paying to play a game the punishes you for playing.   Could we get someone from the Dev team to give a timeline on when the fix will happen?   The only people who support this(As you can see in this thread) are the people who have never had this problem.


EDIT: and when I ask for someone from the dev team to give a timeline, I'm not asking for a typical "Retro smartass answer". 

 

Edited by Greyfox

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Feels rather presumptuous, im not sure ive seen any dev comment that it is broken to begin with, seems like that needs to happen before requesting to know when a 'fix' is coming.

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5 hours ago, Greyfox said:

Bump again.   Fix this.   No point in paying to play a game the punishes you for playing.   Could we get someone from the Dev team to give a timeline on when the fix will happen?   The only people who support this(As you can see in this thread) are the people who have never had this problem.


EDIT: and when I ask for someone from the dev team to give a timeline, I'm not asking for a typical "Retro smartass answer". 

 

This isnt broken, for all intent and purpose it works as intended, the discussion here isn't that it is a broken mechanic, it's that it does not mesh well with your playstyle and could be improved.

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Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler
On 5/15/2017 at 6:10 AM, Greyfox said:

Bump again.   Fix this.   No point in paying to play a game the punishes you for playing.   Could we get someone from the Dev team to give a timeline on when the fix will happen?   The only people who support this(As you can see in this thread) are the people who have never had this problem.


EDIT: and when I ask for someone from the dev team to give a timeline, I'm not asking for a typical "Retro smartass answer". 

 

nonsense

 

Edited by Finnn

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Eh come on, if it's designed to punish cheaters, but also punishes legit players, then it's not working right. Whether you choose to say that it "needs improvement" or "it's broken" doesn't really matter for the nature of the issue, although maybe does for its importance. And anyone's playstyle is not anybody's ###### business, unless it's unfair or harmful to others. A sandbox serves all playstyles.

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