Sign in to follow this  
Pardigan

Fatigue system needs to be looked at

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Greyfox said:

It's something they need to fix.   This fatigue cap has been a problem for many people over the years.  It's been complained about for many years.   What do we get instead of a fatigue fix?   We get pink hell horses.    

 

Given that I've never hit the fatigue cap, but I would very much like a pink hell horse, I'd say the priorities are just fine, thank you.  More hell horse colours instead of fatigue cap changes, please!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Greyfox said:

It's something they need to fix.   This fatigue cap has been a problem for many people over the years.  It's been complained about for many years.   What do we get instead of a fatigue fix?   We get pink hell horses.    

You know Saroman is an art dev, right? 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue isn't botting or bad play styles. It's a stupid poorly implemented system that achieves nothing but forcing players to not play the game as a punishment for playing the game. The worst thing is that once you've managed to hit it once you're basically stuck because the system for regenning fatigue is worse than the one that reduces it >.<

Edited by Nadroj
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler
On 4/25/2017 at 0:06 PM, Finnn said:

blah blah blah..

If there's a problem here.. it's in your playstyle, not the mechanic, game only helps you in various ways...

<_<:wacko:

 

Edited by Finnn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes that is what i was responding to and pointing out as something i see as incorrect, repeating it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had a ton of players hitting the fatigue cap on my server. All have been banned for macroing, after all the time I haven't seen one player who hit that cap wihtout using macros.

 

Fatigue is a good system and if you really hit it yourself, it will protect you and your health.

Edited by Sklo:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Sklo, fatigue on WU can be easily hit if you have a high action timer multiplier. It seems fatigue calculation goes mad with 1.5 sec timers, I did hit fatigue cap on a fast server just pushing parts into a knarr, it was very much less than 12h.

 

Anyway, how about a fatigue reset Red Bull potion that could only be bought from the cash shop and a GM delivers at a random time? That way the botcheck would be incorporated as well :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Nadroj said:

The issue isn't botting or bad play styles. It's a stupid poorly implemented system that achieves nothing but forcing players to not play the game as a punishment for playing the game.

 

a certain way, apparently.

***************************************************************************************

Not directed at you Nadroj, but generally speaking::

 

Maybe Rolf designed a game for people with ADHD who can't sit and do the same exact thing for 16 hours straight. :P

 

Some games ... actually a lot of games... do reward people for grinding to the top asap.  One of the reasons I like Wurm is that it does not necessarily reward this as some of you are defining it.  Everything is relatively inter-connected.  Doing X raises B which will in turn help when you're doing Y.  It is built from the ground up with the notion of doing many different things in one play session.

 

Every game has a set of constrictions to play within.  After reading through this thread, I believe the fatigue system is a design choice.  It's not about your health.  It might be useful in catching botters.  Ultimately though, there is a specific and particular play-style it punishes, and that is by design.

 

"but...but...the design is stoopid!"  I disagree.  You may not like it, but stupid it is not.

"but...but...I'm just so good at the game!"  Yeah?  Nice!  So why do you keep hitting the fatigue wall, particularly when you're fully aware it exists?

"well, clearly the system is broken."  Maybe.  Though just as clearly you're doing it wrong.

"but...but...I'm so much more efficient than all these lil ppl!"  Grats!  How's that workin' out for ya?

"gah!  I hate CCAB!"  That's a bummer, man.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another one for the "bugs you dont bother to report because they dont really matter since supposedly only macro'ers encounter them" corner:

when you have your last action canceled by mental exhaustion kicking in the worn weapon will be shown as the tool last used, yet only to yourself, until you relog.

edit: oh oh. i got more. when out of fatigue clicking the stealth button will result in absolutely nothing. not even the error that you're too exhausted.

 

i do have to say that greyfox' art of asking for this isnt really something i'd agree with, whats with that bite, buddy? we're asking them to actually do ###### for us after all.

 

and reylaark im actually working on pointing out a bunch of the points where you can see that the system is weird in some areas and you might understand what im referring to.

Edited by Arium

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair there shouldnt be a system that prevents you from playing the game. You pay for playing the game afterall!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Greyfox said:


You're welcome to watch me play if you think I'm botting.   And for the shear amount of time I afk, I should not be hitting this stupid wall.  
All I'm doing to hit is grinding efficiently, although really not sure how I hit with my alt yesterday, only had that character online for 4hrs yesterday and not at all the day before.   Clearly a broken system.

 

You are aware you get 8 hours of fatigue a day.

So the absolute minimum, assuming you didn't play at all the day before, that gives you 8 hours. Even with 4 hours of grinding, that gives you at least one more hour of fatigue. So you had a minimum of 9 hours of grinding.

 

If you grinded all 8 hours of fatigue, that would have given you 11 hours of grinding for that day, at the absolute minimum.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Hailene said:

 

You are aware you get 8 hours of fatigue a day.

So the absolute minimum, assuming you didn't play at all the day before, that gives you 8 hours. Even with 4 hours of grinding, that gives you at least one more hour of fatigue. So you had a minimum of 9 hours of grinding.

 

If you grinded all 8 hours of fatigue, that would have given you 11 hours of grinding for that day, at the absolute minimum.

Okay, you have no idea how fatigue works.  You do not get 8hrs/day, it would actually be awesome if you did. 
What you get is a max of 12hrs of fatigue that recharges 1hr every 3hrs(you get 1 hr back for every 3hrs that go by).    Your example of starting with 8 hours requiring 11 of play to kill forgets the fatigue regen timer carries over to the next day.   You eventually end up stuck logging in to 3-6 hrs of fatigue after 9-18 hrs out of game.    After hitting the fatigue cap you need to take 36hrs off from playing to get your fatigue reset to max.  And after a week it's back down again.  

EDIT:  Or did you mean that in a 24hr period of not doing anything you'd regen 8hrs of fatigue?    That would still require not doing anything(Or rather not doing what I want to be doing) for 24hrs.  

Edited by Greyfox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be pissed about this fatigue thing too if my face started to morph into my characters. Perhaps you should take a break, go do other stuff, Wurm isn't going anywhere. If you are constantly using up fatigue without a break, Wurm is probably the least of your worries.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of my posts in this and other topics were censored/or trimmed/ by mods without any indication for that, I do not stand behind the remaining words.
I'll politely ask you to skip this post and not read it, as whatever words and thought have been spared are not what I had to say.

Spoiler

lol.. :lol: face thing was mean:mellow:, I think it's cool to go immersed in RP that much to make your char look like you IRL, even as I do not RP ever(I never get attached to my characters:huh:)

 

The part about playing too much and working in wurm so much to contantly hit the fatigue brick wall and complain about it... idk what to say to these people.... mechanic helps for your health and wellbeing and you still want to go selfdestruct mode and mash keys 24/7, fix your habits guys and girls.

The names at https://niarja.com/skill_compare didnt just get there in 2 days.. you'll be fine grinding 0.10 a day or 0.50, doesnt have to be 12hours straight for the 1.0 or 2.0 skill...<_<.

 

On 4/26/2017 at 7:34 AM, Hailene said:

You are aware you get 8 hours of fatigue a day.
...

If you grinded all 8 hours of fatigue, that would have given you 11 hours of grinding for that day, at the absolute minimum.

mhm...

 

On 4/26/2017 at 3:47 AM, Angelklaine said:

To be fair there shouldnt be a system that prevents you from playing the game. You pay for playing the game afterall!

It's not preventing you from playing the game... it's preventing you from playing unhealthy amount of time that in time could hurt you, the game's economy and let botters or nolifers climb to top of the food chain in shorter period of time.<_<

Angel what do you not understand when someone says ... that to get there.. you need to constantly work on something for hours and hours and hours and hours... to eventually.. get there.. And if the person had any idea what s/he's doing wrong.. they'd just fix their skilling schedule.. and use some of that play time to try new things to spice their game experience, there are several things that do not use fatigue and still give you stats/skills and resources to use.

 

Edited by Finnn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Finnn said:

blah blah blah, if you don't play like me you must be botting or have no life

 

why don't you just move on, this has nothing to do with you, as you do not understand the issue at hand, your attempts at trolling are falling short

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the issue has to come down to insulting players who find issues with this by calling them nolifers. I would suggest perhaps you might want to rethink whether you're on the side of a fair discussion or not.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Finnn said:

lol.. :lol: face thing was mean:mellow:, I think it's cool to go immersed in RP that much to make your char look like you IRL, even as I do not RP ever(I never get attached to my characters:huh:)

 

The part about playing too much and working in wurm so much to contantly hit the fatigue brick wall and complain about it... idk what to say to these people.... mechanic helps for your health and wellbeing and you still want to go selfdestruct mode and mash keys 24/7, fix your habits guys and girls.

The names at https://niarja.com/skill_compare didnt just get there in 2 days.. you'll be fine grinding 0.10 a day or 0.50, doesnt have to be 12hours straight for the 1.0 or 2.0 skill...<_<.

 

mhm...

 

It's not preventing you from playing the game... it's preventing you from playing unhealthy amount of time that in time could hurt you, the game's economy and let botters or nolifers climb to top of the food chain in shorter period of time.<_<

Angel what do you not understand when someone says ... that to get there.. you need to constantly work on something for hours and hours and hours and hours... to eventually.. get there.. And if the person had any idea what s/he's doing wrong.. they'd just fix their skilling schedule.. and use some of that play time to try new things to spice their game experience, there are several things that do not use fatigue and still give you stats/skills and resources to use.

What you dont seem to understand is that is not the job of the devs to decide what are healthy amounts of playtime. What if I am a retired vet with ptsd what copes better on an online setting and I want to spend 16 hours a day of my life on an online community? I have paid my dues, why cant I do what I want now? What if I am filthy rich and dont need to have a job? Or what if I am married with no children and my wife is visiting her folks and I have nothing better to do?

 

Or... What if I am a no lifer? Whats it to you? I pay my subscription same as anyone else. You're not my doctor to tell me what is best for me and is not your problem anyways.

 

Now, a hard cap? I can get on board with that. But when it goes to the level that it wont allow me to play the game... Thats not cool. I have never hit the hard cap myself so my understanding may be flawed, but as I understand it prevents you from doing actions at all. If the goal is to limit progression, then make it so people dont gain skill after they reach the fatigue cap instead 

 

As for whats healthy or not, after giving it some thought, what people said here is true. Not anyone's problem. Shouldn't be part of the discussion.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just imagine... You go to a restaurant and order a rack of baby back ribs, a side of potatoes and a soda. Then the server brings you a chicken breast and steamed vegetables. "Oh here sir, brought you a healthy option because it looks like you are gaining weight. No dessert either, okay?" Then she charges you for the ribs anyways and the dessert.

 

Get the F--- out of here!

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

Okay, you have no idea how fatigue works.  You do not get 8hrs/day, it would actually be awesome if you did.

 

Yeah...no, you have no idea how fatigue works. You literally do get 8 hours of fatigue a day.

 

24 hours a day/3 hours of fatigue=8 hours of fatigue a day.

 

11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

EDIT:  Or did you mean that in a 24hr period of not doing anything you'd regen 8hrs of fatigue?    That would still require not doing anything(Or rather not doing what I want to be doing) for 24hrs.  

 

Exactly.

 

You said you didn't have that alt AT ALL for one whole day. At the ABSOLUTE minimum that means you were logged off for 24 hours.

 

Potentially you could have been logged off for almost 72 hours (if you logged out at 12:01 on Saturday night and didn't log back in on Sunday at all, and logged in Monday night at 11:59). Realistically, you probably logged out maybe late Saturday night and early Monday, so somewhere in the realm of 30-35 hours of time off, assuming you really didn't play for a whole day and don't have some wonky schedule that changes day to day (but different people do have different hours, so I can't discount that).

 

Still, there's no possible way you didn't play a "whole day" and ran into a fatigue wall in 4 hours. Not if you're on a Wurm Online server.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

/puts grumpy-old-lady hat back on

 

Personally, I see this issue boiled down to two things.

 

1)  The stated purpose of the fatigue brick-wall is to prevent macroing.  If the true purpose is only to prevent macroing, and people are hitting that brick wall through legitimate play with no macroing, then it's obvious the system is faulty and needs some attention.

 

2)  It is not the business, nor do I think it is the goal, of Code Club to implement mechanics to protect us from ourselves.  As the old saying goes, opinions are like <insert impolite expletive representing your backside here>, everybody has one.  And yep, I have one too.  In my opinion, too many people seem to think that it's their right and duty to control the lives of others to fit their view of how those people should be acting and what they should be *allowed* to do. In my opinion, some people spend way too much time minding everybody else's business and not enough time minding their own.

 

With that said, I do not think Code Club is in the business of minding our business for us *for our own good.*  However, if I'm wrong, and if any part of the fatigue brick-wall is indeed for the purpose of minding our business for us, then that's just one more reason the system needs some attention.

 

Since I've never hit that brick wall myself and probably never will due to my preferred playstyle, I don't have a horse in this race.  I do have a sense of fair play however, and on a personal note...people minding other people's business is a particular burr under my saddle.  Makes me grumpy.  lol

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/8/2016 at 5:10 PM, Pingpong said:

Playing for several days in a row in a very efficient manner is enough to run out of /fatigue. *shrug* Rolf said it was to limit players with too much time and make it fair for everyone else.

 

This would seem to back my theory that the fatigue system is not about anyone's health, or particularly developed to catch botters.  If it does accomplish either of those, they're ancillary effects.

I still say the fatigue system was designed to promote a certain way to play the game, while limiting another way to play the game.

 

If that's the case, and we can all get on the same page about it, then the discussion could move forward as to how we feel about that in particular.

 

So happens the way it works now totally works for me as the way I play is not at all affected.  That doesn't mean I want to see other play-styles affected negatively though.

I also pay for the game, I just think paying for the game and making design decisions for the game are two completely, unrelated things in the long run.  I'm not an investor or shareholder in the company.  Their decisions are still their own regardless of my entertainment budget.

 

Personally, I do like the idea of a game rewarding a more balanced play-style for once.  It does sometimes seem like every other game out there rewards those who can spend the most time on it at the behest of people who cannot.

However, I'm also not going to throw a hissy-fit if it's decided this is bad for Wurm going forward because what my neighbor can or cannot do doesn't change what I can or cannot do.  Wurm Online can be very social, and yet also promotes personal freedom.  That's a good thing.

 

Perhaps Rolf wanted to limit the power leveling then in turn selling accounts that had one or two very high skills for RL money?  Just spit-balling here.

 

Or, perhaps it's some grander life philosophy?  Has anyone else watched this: http://www.nbc.com/welcome-to-sweden?nbc=1  with Amy Poehler's brother Greg starring?  There are tidbits that may explain why it may just be a philosophical decision to have introduced a mechanic to promote slowing down a bit and smelling the roses.  Just a theory.  The Swedes among us will know better of course ;)

 

 

1 hour ago, Angelklaine said:

then make it so people dont gain skill after they reach the fatigue cap instead

I would kind of imagine that wouldn't fly with people hitting the fatigue cap, as most are hitting it while leveling as efficiently as possible, aka as quickly as possible.  Continuing to play while not leveling would be pointless to them, I think.

 

Nice to see a new idea put forth though :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its an option. Not saying its optimal but it would continue to accomplish the goal without affecting gameplay. You hit your cap and can turn around and do something else, like working on your deed. Doesnt stop you from playing the game, just limits your progression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe have fatigue reset after 6 hrs of ingame sleep? This would be a decent amount of time to let the human behind the monitor to rest.

 

Just a suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not implement fatigue powders? Say 3 hours of fatigue (so equivalent of 9 hours of not playing for clarity)  for 1s?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Hailene said:

Why not implement fatigue powders? Say 3 hours of fatigue (so equivalent of 9 hours of not playing for clarity)  for 1s?


While it would be nice to have another way to regen fatigue this still feels to me like the same issue of punishing players for playing the game a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this