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Retrograde

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Burgers are made from chocolate and any raw nuts

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burger_zps4qhdhtef.png

 

 

When use that cholocate with raw nuts i can use that to start meat pasanda even recipe doesnt even neet that for making it

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fail_zpsyfvetpip.png

 

Edited by monsterix
added spoiler and another feature/bug

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11 hours ago, Ecrir said:

This greatly decreases the odds that people will only end up making a couple of foods, ignoring all the rest.

 

Wrong on so many levels, what will happen is pretty much said already, folks will find the food that gives them the affinity they want, and stop, period.

 

If i only wanted mining, i'd find the food that gave me mining, and the hell with the other 500 recipies, to much time to much hassle and to complicated to sit for hours on end trying to figure out what where how and turn myself into pretzel man.

 

Someone said it best ( Alec i think ) bored folks will spend the time doing this cause they dont' have anything else to do in the game and figure out Every single recipe combo there is, ok cool congrats to them.

 

Right now to me it feels like WoW a system to maxamize stats with cookie cutter properties.  Yeah the affinity thing is nice since it Is random and different effects for each person, but face it, like I said, once you find that golden food are you really gonna spend time trying to make 100 other dishes?

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Stormblade said:

 

Wrong on so many levels, what will happen is pretty much said already, folks will find the food that gives them the affinity they want, and stop, period.

 

If i only wanted mining, i'd find the food that gave me mining, and the hell with the other 500 recipies, to much time to much hassle and to complicated to sit for hours on end trying to figure out what where how and turn myself into pretzel man.

 

Someone said it best ( Alec i think ) bored folks will spend the time doing this cause they dont' have anything else to do in the game and figure out Every single recipe combo there is, ok cool congrats to them.

 

Right now to me it feels like WoW a system to maxamize stats with cookie cutter properties.  Yeah the affinity thing is nice since it Is random and different effects for each person, but face it, like I said, once you find that golden food are you really gonna spend time trying to make 100 other dishes?

 

 

 

Your proving my point, not disproving it. Your mistake is looking from the point of view of just one person whom only wants his one food, Wurm isn't a single player game. There are currently a couple of skills which many people grind, mining included. If there's one optimal food that gives a mining affinity then people will all use that for mining, the rest won't be used as there's no point to them.

 

Let's use an example and say that there are 100 people who currently want the mining affinity, 30 of them cook themselves, 20 more let somebody else in their village do it and the remaining 50 buy food from other players. If there's one optimal food for the mining affinity then these 50 players all buy the exact same food, they don't need anything else. The people selling food will all be making this food as it's in high demand. Thus the other foods are mostly ignored.

Now let's instead assume that the affinities are random, and that these 50 people need 40 different foods (some overlap here and there) for their mining affinity. Now instead of them wanting to buy just one type of food they will be looking to buy 40 different kinds of food. The people selling the food will then have to diversify and make many different kinds of food, or each of them can specialize in a couple of foods, in order to meet demand. Just focusing on one kind of food is pointless. This creates diversity, you're not making the same stuff all year long, you need to mix it up and cook many different things. Sure, this doesn't apply if you make all your food yourself and only want one specific affinity, but that's just one use case, not the only one and it should not become the base line.

 

Multiply this by how many skills are interesting enough to bother with an affinity (probably in the range of 20 to 40) and the random system will a much larger amount of foods being useful, while the set affinity system will result in the vast majority being a complete waste of time, just like how currently meals are the only thing to bother with. Affinities should remain random, else we simply repeat the mistakes of the previous cooking system and end up with a couple of foods which are worth the time, while the vast majority just becomes pointless filler.

 

 

If the issue is that it takes too much effort to find out what your affinities are then just buy food and/or recipes from other players. If you don't want to make 100 dishes then don't, others who enjoy cooking will and nobody is stopping you from buying stuff from them so you don't have to put in any effort yourself.

Edited by Ecrir
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Question, has coffee been added to wurm with this? If so good update, if not terrible.

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On 25/10/2016 at 7:56 AM, monsterix said:

Roasting dish pottery+ minced meat, fowl, corn oil, lemon it asks [09:56:23] Have you tried adding fish broth (50% of solids)?

 

and when add it [09:56:45] The items inside do not make any known recipe.

Thanks, was a mistake in the recipe, it should of been asking for meat broth,fowl -- fixed in next update.

 

Quote

second

Cauldron + maple syrup+honey+water ask [10:33:41] Have you tried adding chopped any herb?

i add chopped basil = [10:34:07] The items inside do not make any known recipe.

Ah the syrup and honey cant be used at same time to make tea, its one or the other (or neither) - fixed in next update.

 

Quote

Pottery bowl + Rice, chopped onion,chopped cucumber, corn oil, chopped fish, when lore [17:02:51] Have you tried adding a ground any spice?

When add 1 ground tumeric [17:03:46] The items inside do not make any known recipe. and when add 2 ground tumeric [17:04:09] Have you tried removing a ground any spice?

 

So that recipe doesnt work(if i do it somehow wrong let me know)

Problem was the recipe only needed one veg, not two, so LORE code was incorrect - fixed in next update

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Not that it matters, but the the randomized affinity feature is dumb. I'm only saying this as I see others commenting on it.  It will be one of the first things I remove with mods in WU.

 

I suspect WO wanted to have a game system that could in a way always be somewhat fresh and a surprise. If the affinities are fixed it won't' take long before all the mystery of the system is fully documented on a wiki. My problem with this is just like maps, if you don't want to know or be surprised, don't look at the spoilers.

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7 minutes ago, joedobo said:

Not that it matters, but the the randomized affinity feature is dumb. I'm only saying this as I see others commenting on it.  It will be one of the first things I remove with mods in WU.

 

I suspect WO wanted to have a game system that could in a way always be somewhat fresh and a surprise. If the affinities are fixed it won't' take long before all the mystery of the system is fully documented on a wiki. My problem with this is just like maps, if you don't want to know or be surprised, don't look at the spoilers.

its random per person, but the same meal with the same ingredients will always give the same affinity

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26 Oct 2016
 * Fix for LORE allowing partial matches when it should not.
 * Fixed the cream merging with whipped cream.
 * Enabled fermenting of unfermented spirits.
 

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

its random per person, but the same meal with the same ingredients will always give the same affinity

 

I do not understand this.  If it is random per person, how will the same meal give the same affinity? 

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3 minutes ago, Pashka said:

 

I do not understand this.  If it is random per person, how will the same meal give the same affinity? 

 

The same meal will always give a given character the same affinity. If a character gets archery from moonshine today, they'll get archery from moonshine tomorrow.

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2 minutes ago, Pashka said:

 

I do not understand this.  If it is random per person, how will the same meal give the same affinity? 

I think what Retro mean is that for the same person, the exact same recipe will always give the same affinity to THAT person.

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Just now, Pashka said:

 

I do not understand this.  If it is random per person, how will the same meal give the same affinity? 

the same meal with the same ingredients will always give person A the same affinity. It may give person B a different affinity, but it will not always give person A a random affinity.

 

There's always going to be ways to avoid the complexity, either by using refreshes or focusing on simple meals to raise nutrition and ignore everything else. The current system is the baseline, any bonus brought in by CCFP and this new system is added.

 

Of course, with over 500 different recipes it should be  clear that the system is oriented more for those wanting to explore, and play around with cooking, rather than focusing on the ability to min-max the system. There will always be the ability to min-max, but for those looking for the cooking system to be more flavourful, there is a lot to explore.

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46 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Of course, with over 500 different recipes it should be  clear that the system is oriented more for those wanting to explore, and play around with cooking, rather than focusing on the ability to min-max the system. There will always be the ability to min-max, but for those looking for the cooking system to be more flavourful, there is a lot to explore.

 

I don't think "explore and play around" and "receive mechanical benefits" need to be mutually exclusive things here. I definitely think, without too much crazy design or implementation work, there can be mechanical benefits to intentionally creating fancy, complex dishes instead of spend far less time creating simpler ones, and that if there isn't such an advantage, something is wrong. Cooking is a system where you're investing time, effort, and resources into some system that benefits you mechanically, so if the only advantage to doing something is "roleplaying" then essentially that's the same as saying there's no benefit at all. From a game design point of view, if you have such a system to give characters a mechanical benefit, and they're given the choice between rather easy and rather difficult options within that system, there really ought to be a benefit to choosing the difficult path. Some ideas for this have been thrown around in this thread, and I'm sure others are possible as well, and it seems like there's at least some consensus here that working harder to produce more difficult and complex food should come with some sort of advantage.

Edited by Ostentatio

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Of course, with over 500 different recipes it should be  clear that the system is oriented more for those wanting to explore, and play around with cooking, rather than focusing on the ability to min-max the system. There will always be the ability to min-max, but for those looking for the cooking system to be more flavourful, there is a lot to explore.

So in other words:

No_Man's_Sky.jpg

?

Simply lots of generic "stuff" without anything to it.

 

Lets simplify cooking into what it really is.

For starters pretty much all the cooking recipies lack models/icons. They all give pretty much the same benefits with minor variations.

So what is it then?

Activate component A and combine it with component B to get component C.

The player is given the option to do 30 combinational steps or 3 to get pretty much the same endresults except the name of the final product. (and in a lot of cases the 30 combination pattern ends up being worse aswell.)

Why would the player do the 30 combination steps more than once if there is no real benefit?

 

In other games the more advanced stuff generally reaps better benefits and thus the extra time spent pays off.

In wurm... not so much.

 

There is no uniqueness between the food types.

Most of them produce atleast 3 nutritional stats to high levels and thus there is no need to create the more advanced recipies becouse the most basic ones cover the job.

Why?

We got our basic hunger bar and "nutrition" covered by almost any meal.

Why did the new nutritional bars get so easy to obtain in almost all types?

Couldn't we have had food that was merely good in some aspects and absolutely crap in the rest?

While allowing the more advanced food to actually fill up multiple bars, thus being the perk for spending your time making avanced stuff.

Why did the players need to get 100% in everything from pretty much everything?

Why is there no diversity and choices in food?

Ya devs just made a big generic soup out of all the recipies and its kinda dissapointing to be honest.

It has so much more potential.

 

With that said though, I think the update is very nice, but its rough quartz atm comparable to the diamond it could be.

 

Generally massive unknowns like these gets somekind of achievement counter "257/500 recipies discovered" or something to make the players proud over what they discovered, but even that oppurtunity was missed.

People tend to like stuff like that.

example: Achievement window from WoW (found on google)

YJPO1.jpg

Edited by Zekezor
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I would agree with many commenting on the difficulty to reward balance with cooking as it currently exists on test.  Also I have only made a few recipes so far but am curious are any on the combat skills represented on the random skill list for foods and if yes has thought been given into how that might impact pvp?  And I have seen that ice is needed for the larder? How does one get ice in that case?

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1 hour ago, Zekezor said:

snip

Scaling of the difficulty to rewards can be easily done, at this point we're testing functionality and taking feedback.

 

We'll have more info in this weeks news of course.

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15 minutes ago, Dalvin said:

I would agree with many commenting on the difficulty to reward balance with cooking as it currently exists on test.  Also I have only made a few recipes so far but am curious are any on the combat skills represented on the random skill list for foods and if yes has thought been given into how that might impact pvp?  And I have seen that ice is needed for the larder? How does one get ice in that case?

 

I know I've gotten weapon and stance skill affinities from food on the test server.

 

I've also gotten the same affinity from multiple foods, so there's definitely not a sense of "for each skill there is exactly one food that will give you the affinity" or anything like that, which means some more flexibility.

 

I just hope there's some guarantee that every character has at least some recipe for every skill, so you don't wine up with skills for which there is no helpful food. However, even if there's no guarantee, it seems statistically unlikely for that to happen given the recipes and countless variations on those recipes.

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16 minutes ago, Dalvin said:

I would agree with many commenting on the difficulty to reward balance with cooking as it currently exists on test.  Also I have only made a few recipes so far but am curious are any on the combat skills represented on the random skill list for foods and if yes has thought been given into how that might impact pvp?  And I have seen that ice is needed for the larder? How does one get ice in that case?

 

snowballs can be gathered during winter.

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23 hours ago, Propheteer said:

 

 I tried to refrain from posting this, but we had a talk about development today in our teamspeak and i was in the mood to rant.

 

 In the nicest way possible, the cooking update is fairly half-assed, like a lot of the existing PvP mechanics. Please take what i write below as criticism and not personally. There are a lot of possibilities to make something really cool, and take the depth you have already created and take it to the next level, as opposed to giving people the impression of an unfinished product once more.

 

First off, and probably the largest issue are the time-based affinities that you get for eating specific meals. This is account dependant, so little Timothy might get a Body Strength affinity for eating a Breakfast (which would be a single meat in a bowl), whereas Bernard might get his from a Crab Bisque, which is one of the more demanding meals in the game that requires many materials, some of them farmable, and four heating stages. Not only does this imbalance it and create RNG in account creation for those joining who hope to catch up with the existing big shots, it also kills the potential for something really cool and unique, a new entry into the market of wurm. Cooking. Imagine if these time-based rewards were meal-specific? So both little Timothy and Bernard could get Body Strength from Crab Bisque, as opposed to one having to go through a few hour long process to make his, and the other a five minute process. People would pay for the meals that give these affinities, and some people would pay for pre-made materials to make them.

 

There is also no purpose to make any of the advanced recipes under any circumstance. (Obviously, if some people get ###### and end up having to create one for a half-decent time-based affinity they would have to, but for reasons explained above this is shitty.) Using the examples listed above, Breakfast and Crab Bisque. Breakfast is pretty simple. It’s just a meat in a bowl. It gives you everything you need. Crab Bisque is pretty advanced, if you click here you can see the recipe. Now, when you compare the two, why would i EVER create this recipe? You know, excluding if my account gets reamed by being unlucky with affinities. Well, heres your answer: There isn’t one. You will get everything from the breakfast as you would from the crab bisque. You would simply be wasting your own time, which seems to really devalue the whole reason for the cooking update in the first place. Why add all these new recipes if they don’t do anything?

 

Keeping in mind the advanced recipes, even the recipes you would think a new player would go for, like one of the soups, are awful. Liquids do absolutely nothing except kill the nutritional value of the meal. You have no more reason to ever make anything with a liquid in it than you do now, the reasons being to waste your own time, or make food to feed your pet you set aside for taming grinding, Magnus the Cave-Bug. Without even considering nutrition, some of the recipes are outright annoying to handle. I don’t know if this was an oversight or if it was made intentionally, but we will use orridge as an example. You can put one portion of rice and one portion of water to make porridge. You cannot put 20 portions of rice and 20 portions of water to make porridge. This missing QOL mechanic also flares up in non-liquid foods too, such as when making bread. To make bread you need enough dough for a piece of bread and a stoneware. You however, cannot make 10 bread without doing 10 pieces of dough and 10 pieces of stoneware. Why? Why is this a thing?

 

Moving on to another missed opportunity, i’m not sure if developers were willing to accommodate balance changes necessary to properly do something like this, but you completely ignored all the endgame unique items you couldve thrown in to make unique, fantasy meals that give nice bonuses. You could have tied it into the affinity system, such as making a white dragon steak give one of those temporary Body Strength affinities. people would go out of their way to try and get this stuff which would increase the value of items that are currently deemed worthless (which is HUGE, considering most of the things and materials you come across in the game are pointless.) It’s something that was skipped over but could have been pretty revolutionary, i suppose this part was more of a suggestion than anything else, but it couldve been the start of really fleshing out the clutter that currently persists in the game world.

 

Last but not least, the UI could do some work. I mean for the affinity thing, you could add a search feature to show which meals give what affinity so people know instead of having to rely on third party programs to do it for them (or if it was standardized, the forums or wiki, or ingame chat.). The fats value, as i just dislike clutter, doesn’t need to be there at all if you are a non-priest. It has no benefit for you in any way, shape, or form.

 

Also, with the cookbook you are adding too many unknowns. A lot of the recipes here have a lot of ingredients, some with very minor variations. I’m not asking for you to list the name of the recipes, or the ingredients, or even the number of ingredients. But it would be excellent to have a number next to each category showing how much you have learned and how much you need to go. Like Brews [20/50], indicating to the player that they are missing 30 recipes. You could even take a step further and tie in to the achievement and personal goal systems in some way.

 

Thats it. Also, I have crippling depression.

 

 

 

I fully agree with this.

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3 minutes ago, Pandalet said:

 

snowballs can be gathered during winter.

Seriously? Gave me a chuckle imagining how many snowballs it would take to fill a icebox in real life.

 

Too bad the water doesn't freeze over in winter, requiring people to drill into the ice and then retrieve ice blocks. Of course the ice spell could be used to make ice too eh?

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On 10/22/2016 at 1:11 PM, Retrograde said:

There is a limit of 4 planted trellis per tile. Any extras that are currently planted on same tile will become unplanted.

I seem to have an issue with trellis planting, perhaps the limit is not 4, but 3 planted per tile?

 

There's one tile I can't get a 4th trellis to plant at all, the plant action succeeds and it says "You plant the trellis", but it's not "firmly secured" when examined.

 

Other times I can plant a 4th trellis, but it becomes unplanted when pushing it around. It was next to a tile border to a tile without anything planted, but it never left the tile.

 

When I plant a trellis on a neighbouring tile, and I try to pull it onto a tile that already has 3 trellis planted, it says "You cannot move the item here, since there is not enough space".

 

Now I have 3 planted on one tile, 2 on the neighbouring tile. I can plant a 3rd on the neighbouring tile. But when I now try to plant a 4th one where it has already 3, it says there are already 4, even though it looks like it's only 3.

 

Edited by Ulviirala

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On the lighter side of this, are there any "fried dough" type recipes? Fritters or donuts or anything like that? That would be great.

 

Also bagels. And then bagel sandwiches.

 

I'm hungry.

Edited by Ostentatio
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A lot of players will make the different food just to have there name attached also.

Some players like things like that..

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