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Davih

Name and Shame : Willieman : stole goblin leader "for JK" - Necroedarkslayer mocked us for it

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7 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

Look, people can point fingers all they want.  Player A said this, Player B did that.  It all boils down to greed on both "sides", which sad to say, happens with every unique fight.  It is nothing new, it has been happening ever since sorcery items were introduced, and it will continue to happen because of the nature of greed.

 

People are painting this picture of these "poor noobs that got taken advantage of" when I see this thread and know that someone with that many rares/supremes (for sale, lord knows how many he has that aren't for sale) and sells 99 QL logs doesn't count as a "noob" in my mind.

 

Somebody missed out on 1g.  ###### happens.  It happened to me when the wrong number got /roll on a spreadsheet at the last unique kill I went to.  Get over it.

 

nope...don't even try that. It's bad enough that it was painted as if those 2 were the bad guys all along.
After it was made clear over and over again, that the point of this thread was being "purposefully" mislead, to obfuscate the situation, you "lost" your arguments, you can't just say "oh hey! just leave it at, we are both at fault for the bad things that were done"
that's not how it went and you know that.

 

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that's not how it went and you know that.

 

No, I don't know that.  I wasn't there.  I didn't find it, I didn't pen it, I didn't slay it, I wasn't even there for blood.  But I know how unique fights go.  Someone gets butt-hurt almost every time for one reason or another

 

@Davih

I got nothing to prove, buddy.  I have been to my fair share of unique fights, hosted numerous fights, and never once kept a charge, bone or skull for myself unless I rolled against everyone that helped me slay it.  Reputation in a community is more important to me than selling a tome for silver. 

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4 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

@Davih

 

I got nothing to prove, buddy.  I have been to my fair share of unique fights, hosted numerous fights, and never once kept a charge, bone or skull for myself unless I rolled against everyone that helped me slay it.  Reputation in a community is more important to me than selling a tome for silver. 


Oh,i am just so happy for you that you are such a wonderful person, i was just so unlucky that Willieman and not you showed up with the priest we called to help us to take everything for him and his friends.

Also i never said that i wanted to sell it for Silver, it's just Rixk that made you notice that even if i wanted to do that i was free to do it.
And it wouldn't even have been mine to decide, as it's Luttuosa that found that Goblin and wanted that tome/charge

Edited by Davih

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So.. why DID the "innocent" PvP'er want them to go to Chaos in order to get their charge?

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Classic Chaos.

 

Freedom gets a feature they wanted exclusivity on, "Carebears should come to Chaos and face the risk!!!!!".  Unique spawns on Freedom, Chaos swarms at it for the safe loot.

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All i can say is that this will be handled.

Edited by MAADposter
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I won't bother taking a side here as I'll never be able to know the full story and be 100/100 sure whether everything that I have learned is true. However I need to comment on the offer which involved sailing to Chaos for a charge as it looks like that not everyone on Chaos understands how Freedom-psychology or how PvP to PvE trading can work.


No Freedomer goes to Chaos for any kind of business unless they know the persons involved in it well, because they will always suspect possible foul play against them (it happens no matter if it is well justified or not). Even if they trust the other party no one can guarantee their safety here, as if they have bad luck their boat can still be ambushed by an enemy boat (not to mention that if the Freedomer has already told all his buddies of the trip the chances of such a thing happening will just go up). If any chaos-based folks want to make a deal involving a unique charge they can just mail it to the recipient on Freedom right after using the rest of he charges wherever they want. It is actually a frequently used method of tome-charge trading. To anyone who will rush to say that cross kingdom mail doesn't work my answer is: I know, but even the smallest kingdoms on Chaos have managed to smuggle and sell glimmer weapons from Chaos to Freedom in the past, so it has been proven that bringing such stuff back to Freedom is perfectly possible. Sure it takes more effort but it is still the only realistic way to do this.

 

Just my 2c regarding any type of business between Freedomers and Chaos people.

Edited by Anothernoob
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7 minutes ago, Anothernoob said:

I won't bother taking a side here as I'll never be able to know the full story and be 100/100 sure whether everything that I have learned is true. However I need to comment on the offer which involved sailing to Chaos for a charge as it looks like that not everyone on Chaos understands how Freedom-psychology or how PvP to PvE trading can work.


No Freedomer goes to Chaos for any kind of business unless they know the persons involved in it well because they will always suspect possible foul play against them (it happens no matter if it is well justified or not). Even if they trust the other party no one can guarantee their safety here as if they have bad luck their boat can still be ambushed by an enemy boat (not to mention that if the Freedomer has already told all his buddies of the trip the chances of such a thing happening will just go up). If any chaos-based folks want to make a deal involving a unique charge they can just mail it to the recipient on Freedom right after using the rest of he charges wherever they want. It is actually a frequently used method of tome-charge trading. To anyone who will rush to say that cross kingdom mail doesn't work my answer is: I know, but even the smallest kingdoms on Chaos have managed to smuggle and sell glimmer weapons from Chaos to Freedom in the past so it has been proven that bringing such stuff back to Freedom is perfectly possible. Sure it takes more effort but it is still the only realistic way to do this.

 

Just my 2c regarding business between Freedomers and Chaos people.


I can quote this and i can add that, given the previous events and the lack of trustworthyness those individuals shown. We were 90% sure it was a trap to troll us even more, i can't be 100% sure it was, but i think everybody can understand this situation and the fact that we didn't want to go on Chaos with people that already showed themselves as sneaky and opportunistic people, to use kind words.

Edit:
Oh, wait, and i almost forgot this: [21:57:21] <Necroedarkslayer> I also never asked you to go to chaos, Id kill you if you did

Edited by Davih
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At least one of the participants has also been to Deli trying to take our uniques.

He flunked that time.

 

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What a bunch of miserable creeps, those JK.  Particularly that guy that speaks gibberish.

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Just call me when you find a unique and need help penning before it gets taken by others. 

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1 minute ago, whykillme said:

Just call me when you find a unique and need help penning before it gets taken by others. 

I appreciate your help, but i think we won't call or tell anybody ever again, it got taken by the people that we called.

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TBH the whole unique system could use an overhaul. Right now everyone can find the unique(jackpot), but very few have actual means to "cash in". Its not very logical, that when you find a unique, then the worst thing you can do, is to announce it on global.

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Just now, rixk said:

TBH the whole unique system could use an overhaul. Right now everyone can find the unique(jackpot), but very few have actual means to "cash in". Its not very logical, that when you find a unique, then the worst thing you can do, is to announce it on global.

Yeah, we didn't announce where it was in global anyway, we called specific people to help us. Gofs, with his priest alt, who actually did all that we couldn't do (collapsing the tile - we did already got a nice spot with a little reinforced cavern and lured it in several times (ofc he was constantly getting out without the entrance being collapsed)

The other people that came along with him (he tought they were trustable friends) were actually these 2 guys (Willieman - Marinekiller) that did nothing relevant and betrayed both us and him by suprise-deeding it for themselves after our alt with the deed stake died because of me lagging, while we were already ready to deed with Luttuosa and i did already send her a new deed stake (since nobody replied to the question if someone had one)

So we didn't even do something as stupid as announcing where it was in global.

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I wrote it, but for those who are going aking it over and over again, I will rewrite it, so I hope this time will be clear.

 

I will be pleased if this JK guy whould bring to me on a freedom server the tome with one charge.

As my friend explained to me, charges don't need to be used all together, so he can use 2 charges and leave mine in the tome and give the tome to me. I don't think I am asking a so complicate thing, becouse he came from chaos to celebration, so he can sail. If the point where we killed the goblin is the unique part of all the freedom servers where he know how to sail, I will meet him in celebration, not a problem.

 

What I would do with the tome, I think it is my business, I don't think I need permissions if I want to use it, sell it or give it as a gift to a friend. My daddy don't tell me what to do with my things, why should someone other claim this right?

 

A little more explanation of a couple of things I have read here.

Yes, we sell and buy items, with rares and sometime supreme too if we are lucky; this don't mean that we know everything about the game. I went to a rift and a guy dropped a darksomething ring; until that moment I never have heard about this object, is this a crime? I don't think so.

 

And for the people who find funny that we believed to the story of the pve JK leader, we don't know Chaos' mechanics; why should it be impossible? There are people that play here from more time than me and know less thing than me, but if they ask me something I don't answer them "lol, don't you know it? ahahahah". Even my nephew of 7 years old give answers like this.

Edited by Luttuosa
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They could just mail the charge but i it would suprise me if they didnt use all 3 chargers already, whatever dropped

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4 minutes ago, whykillme said:

They could just mail the charge but i it would suprise me if they didnt use all 3 chargers already, whatever dropped

 

Just to make this event even more fair :)? I really hope they didn't do that.

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1 hour ago, necroe said:

I treated your GF nice, I did not talk crap to her. I even thanked her for finding it.

 

Oh you thanked her for finding it so you can steal it. What a gentleman!

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5 hours ago, Mordraug said:

Classic Chaos.

 

Freedom gets a feature they wanted exclusivity on, "Carebears should come to Chaos and face the risk!!!!!".  Unique spawns on Freedom, Chaos swarms at it for the safe loot.

That ain't fair. 

 

Chaos is not all to blame for a group known for this behavior. In sorry OLD JK there were many GREAT people in JK once upon a time, today however is a different story. This is a very known game play for this set of players and those who follow them are just part of it. Then chaos gets a bad outlook because of yes many bad apples sadly but that is not the painted picture with all the Damn apples. 

 

Its funny to see how many excuses JK are making about the OP (original poster) being greedy and wanting the whole charge... So if they didn't understand how the time worked the deal was still a deal and JK should have used up 2 charges instead of 3 and traded the last one to the people who found it. There in NO excuse that can be made for this not to have happened if you really wanted to stick to your word which you knew all along wasn't going to happen anyway. 

 

Glad to see more of the way current JK plays is coming to light.

 

I'm sorry that chaos players are able to get away with shat like this but at the end of the day just like real life its because not enough people stand up against it. 

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7 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

Its funny to see how many excuses JK are making about the OP (original poster) being greedy and wanting the whole charge... So if they didn't understand how the time worked the deal was still a deal and JK should have used up 2 charges instead of 3 and traded the last one to the people who found it. There in NO excuse that can be made for this not to have happened if you really wanted to stick to your word which you knew all along wasn't going to happen anyway.


We didn't really "made a deal" anyway, we just kinda resigned to not being able to do anything anymore and to see if at least they would honor that part of the rules they made up by themselves after stealing the thing.

Besides that, i don't feel like blaming the whole JK either, even less the whole chaos, i've talked with decent people from both Chaos and JK, altought i may not trust them completely aswell, i think your opinion makes sense and i would just want to focus on the guys who actually did this thing without generalizing.

Edited by Davih
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45 minutes ago, Davih said:


We didn't really "made a deal" anyway, we just kinda resigned to not being able to do anything anymore and to see if at least they would honor that part of the rules they made up by themselves after stealing the thing.

Besides that, i don't feel like blaming the whole JK either, even less the whole chaos, i've talked with decent people from both Chaos and JK, altought i may not trust them completely aswell, i think your opinion makes sense and i would just want to focus on the guys who actually did this thing without generalizing.

My point is a deal does not have to be made as like a contract... Its simple really just being an upstanding human, your GF found the goblin and whatever happen that led to JK controlling it is whatever that all doesn't matter... But the right thing to do was simply use 2 charges and attempt to trade the 3rd charge to your GF for the original verbal agreement. Even if she wouldn't accept the trade they should have dropped the charge at her feet simply because of just sticking to their word.

 

My further point to my comment is the group of misfits you dealt with were most likely going to screw you over anyway because THATS WHAT THEY DO.

 

My generalization of them as a whole is because anyone who stands by that type of consistant behaviour may as well have done it themselves. I'm assuming many fighters showed up for the slaying all being JK. So as members they should have made sure no shady business was going on with it and they should have insisted the Finder of the goblin be compensated as discussed. I find the whole thing very simple... This is one of the reasons why many people have left the game\continue to leave the game and its not helping at all. 

Edited by MaurizioAM

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11 hours ago, Luttuosa said:

I know there will be grammatical errors, but I'll try to explain my point of view.

 

Yes, I know the "deed it or loose it" motto, thanks; and I know too that the sun is yellow, if someone is thinking to remind me that too.

 

A couple of people told me I should be happy and fair about how things went, but i don't feel like this. What I have seen is a person, Willieman, taking advantage about a new situation for me. Probably most of you guys went to many unique hunts, probably someone of you found one and you would have been more preparated than me. I just went to a unique event, a dragon, and this was the first unique I've ever found. 

If you guys were new players and find yourself a nice spot where you want to deed, if it is your first time and call someone to help you and the one you call deed right where you wanted deed, is this fair? I don't think so; not against the rules, but surely not fair. 

"Dear new hunter Luttuosa, you spent your time to find this unique, and now I deed it and decide everything about it, isn't it fun and fair?". Probably you must have a very weird concept about what is fun and fair. 

 

Anyway he deeded, and told me he wanted steal the loot, and he did it becouse I was afk. Now it is very hard for me to understand how he just realize I was afk becouse I just wrote on chat the second before he deeded. 

 

So, what did he told me?

[20:12:58] <Luttuosa> willie I was deeding, why do you deed?
[20:15:38] <Willieman> Looked like you were strugling and then you went afk
[20:16:54] <Luttuosa> I wasn't afk, I was asking for a deedstake and you deeded
[20:17:00] <Willieman> You will still get loot
[20:17:06] <Willieman> not stealing the kill
[20:18:09] <Luttuosa> ok, i was going to share a part with you guys for your help anyway
[20:18:46] <Willieman> Ok but we cant do it on sunday only someone will come and steal this to many people know its here
[20:19:16] <Luttuosa> what do you mean with taking this for JK?
[20:20:32] <Willieman> Get the JK over to help kill this thing we gonna need fighters
[20:20:47] <Willieman> we gonna kill it in about 2 or 3 hours
[20:24:55] <Luttuosa> Why JK and not make it public for everyone?
[20:25:08] <Luttuosa> and what is roll for rest and part for us? i don't understand
[20:26:53] <Willieman> Ok so basically you are garenteed 1 item that drops because you found it then the main fighters get to role on the other things and then the public people get the blood

The day after, the day of the slay, I wrote to willieman.

[18:40:13] <Luttuosa> hello willie
[18:41:29] <Luttuosa> will I be the first to chose the item?
[18:41:46] <Willieman> You will coose first

 

The goblin die and it drops a black tome; meanwhile it is butchered I search it on the wiki, becouse i never heard nothing about tomes, and I find this (this is the wiki description of the black tome):

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Description

The black leather covers will reveal the secrets of high magic for the one who dares open them.

Usage

  • Spell granted(Male): Summon Skeletons (Summons a group of skeletons)
  • Spell granted(Female): Summon Wraith (Summons a Wraith)
  • Resistance: Disease 15% (Decreases disease damage taken by 15%)
  • Weakness: Water 10% (Increases water damage taken by 10%)

Item Use Requirements

You need to be standing in a 3x3 flat area in order to use this.
You need to be in the vicinity of a holy altar.

Can be used at any altar in a 3x3 flat area.

 

I read it, and the wiki say it is for the one who open it and that is an item.
So I waited for the butchering, hel told me what the goblin had, I looked for them on wiki and than I chose the black tome.(I would like to underline that: until it drops the tome, he always told me i could took an item and never told me "if it's a tome you can have just a charge", he alway told me about an item, and that what I have read a tome is: an item).

I felt like I found a crown and quickly he changed his mind in something like "Oh, I didn't tell you? Of this item you can take only a gem!", and I was like "what :S?".

Anyway that's why he wanted not give it to me:

[20:10:53] <Willieman> Can't give you the whole tome because you probably just gonna sell it. You can get a charge or you can take something else

So he turned into my dad when I was 6 years old "I don't give you the money or you will spend all of it for stickers".

So, basically at the end my and my friend had one charge and he took two charges, the rare bone, the hat and the skull toot. 
Again, is this fun and fair? I really don't think so.

Now I really hope that this guy will at least leave my charge in the tome and bring it to me on a freedom server, becouse I don't think I am asking the universe and I am really upset about all this story and this guy and I want to close this "game chapter" really soon.

 

 

I don't know why the last part of this message has a white background, but it seems like i can settle it, so... look at it like it has no background color.

 

After reading the above, it's pretty clear what happened. I haven't read further than this cause I'm assuming the rest is mostly he said she said.

 

Luttuosoa unfortunately was not aware of how tomes work. You get a limited number of uses on them that are usually raffled off I believe to members of the slaying party. Nobody ever gets an entire tome because 1 charge is all any character will ever need, and each tome has several charges. It'd be completely unfair for 1 person to walk off with the whole full tome when they could take 1 use, then another player uses it then another player and so on. sharing.

 

This misunderstanding caused confusion and with confusion, uniques and valuable items involved, everyone suddenly gets suspicious of one another. Luttuosoa thought she was being cheated because she wasn't aware of how tomes work, so she expected to be able to take the whole tome. The other side of the argument felt I'm assuming that Luttuosoa wasn't satisfied with just 1 charge and upon trading it she'd take the whole thing, since that could easily happen and nothing could be done about it on a non PvP server.

 

Please all try to understand the situation from both sides. It's a bad situation that unfolded due to misunderstanding. I don't speak for either side, just want to make sure everyone gets on the same page.

Edited by Madt
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10 minutes ago, Madt said:

 

After reading the above, it's pretty clear what happened. I haven't read further than this cause I'm assuming the rest is mostly he said she said.

 

Luttuosoa unfortunately was not aware of how tomes work. You get a limited number of uses on them that are usually raffled off I believe to members of the slaying party. Nobody ever gets an entire tome because 1 charge is all any character will ever need, and each tome has several charges. It'd be completely unfair for 1 person to walk off with the whole full tome when they could take 1 use, then another player uses it then another player and so on. sharing.

 

This misunderstanding caused confusion and with confusion, uniques and valuable items involved, everyone suddenly gets suspicious of one another. Luttuosoa thought she was being cheated because she wasn't aware of how tomes work, so she expected to be able to take the whole tome. The other side of the argument felt I'm assuming that Luttuosoa wasn't satisfied with just 1 charge and upon trading it she'd take the whole thing, since that could easily happen and nothing could be done about it on a non PvP server.

 

Please all try to understand the situation from both sides. It's a bad situation that unfolded due to misunderstanding. I don't speak for either side, just want to make sure everyone gets on the same page.

You are partially correct, i mean, on this specific part you may be, but this whole situation is about way more than that, starting from how they took the deed from us abusing our trust. As you can see by what i posted originally, the "tome charges matter" is just a little part of the whole situation.

Edited by Davih

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1 minute ago, Davih said:

You are partially correct, i mean, on this specific part you may be, but this whole situation is about way more than that, starting from how they took the deed from us abusing our trust. As you can see by what i posted originally, the "tome charges matter" is just a little part of the whole situation.

 

Well based off this chat log posted by Luttuosoa,

 

Quote

So, what did he told me?

[20:12:58] <Luttuosa> willie I was deeding, why do you deed?
[20:15:38] <Willieman> Looked like you were strugling and then you went afk
[20:16:54] <Luttuosa> I wasn't afk, I was asking for a deedstake and you deeded
[20:17:00] <Willieman> You will still get loot
[20:17:06] <Willieman> not stealing the kill
[20:18:09] <Luttuosa> ok, i was going to share a part with you guys for your help anyway
[20:18:46] <Willieman> Ok but we cant do it on sunday only someone will come and steal this to many people know its here
[20:19:16] <Luttuosa> what do you mean with taking this for JK?
[20:20:32] <Willieman> Get the JK over to help kill this thing we gonna need fighters
[20:20:47] <Willieman> we gonna kill it in about 2 or 3 hours
[20:24:55] <Luttuosa> Why JK and not make it public for everyone?
[20:25:08] <Luttuosa> and what is roll for rest and part for us? i don't understand
[20:26:53] <Willieman> Ok so basically you are garenteed 1 item that drops because you found it then the main fighters get to role on the other things and then the public people get the blood

The day after, the day of the slay, I wrote to willieman.

[18:40:13] <Luttuosa> hello willie
[18:41:29] <Luttuosa> will I be the first to chose the item?
[18:41:46] <Willieman> You will coose first

 

I genuinely do believe Willieman was telling the truth here. You can't wait about with uniques, and I know it may seem like he was barging in with that deed and taking control away from you, but it looks to me like he was just trying to secure it from someone else. If he had waited, theres no knowing who could have come along, deeded it and kept it entirely for themselves. The longer you wait the greater the risk.

Why do I think this? Well if he really wanted to actually screw you over he could just have put you on KoS as soon as the deed was dropped and then you'd be powerless against it.

Something else to note, these people have killed many uniques, so much so that they know the routine like clockwork now. Find a unique, secure it and organise a killing as quickly and efficiently as possible. No waiting around, even if it is deeded. Uniques can be kind of unpredictable sometimes, so anything could happen.

Please understand, the deed wasn't dropped to try and take control away from you.

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