DevBlog

WSA: Hitched Aggressive Creature update

187 posts in this topic

 

This was an obvious bug that people took advantage of.  I for one am glad that the devs care enough to continue refining the game and fixing things that are broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Aariez said:

 

This was an obvious bug that people took advantage of.  I for one am glad that the devs care enough to continue refining the game and fixing things that are broken.

 

I would agree with you if the fix could be seen as something that is broken.  As things stand, it is a game mechanic which was NEVER revealed as a bug until yesterday. Someone somewhere decided it was a bug which caused...I don't know what game breaking damage.  People want to encourage us to breed less horses, so let's take away hellhorses which could replace horses for many people and encourage people to breed more horses again?  I have no idea why this change is necessary.  A lot of my friends used hellhorse carts, a lot still didn't.  The biting/burning beasties still kept some people from using them, so there was still a balance of use in the game. 

 

If the vision is that not everyone should be able to handle unruly horses, a better way would probably be to link the use of hitched horses at various ages to a certain skillset.  This means that with say 31 body control and say 35 AH you could hitch them and command them at ages young, adol and mature.  Then you need some higher body control level to be able to command the cart once they reach say aged level, and higher body control with old, and higher body control for venerable.  People would have to have different levels of control to handle these prickly pretties, so to speak.

 

The results of this decision are clear though.  It will significantly change the enjoyment of game for many people, and to the point where even people who obviously have the skills to breed hellies and can 1. swop their own out regularly and 2. can make money selling them, are saying this change is going to push them out of the game.  The same can be said for fountain pans, which traded hands many times over and cost people real life money.  It was left in game for donkey's years and became part of the game of wurm.  It is a game mechanic that stops decay and limits chores/repairs/maintenance, so it is popular.  This "hellhorse-unhitching-at-some-magical-number-at-a-random-time" change seems to be just another method of adding adding more decay to wurm...hellhorses will get old and become too damaged to be used or repaired.  Decayed horses will be destroyed or lost and replacing them is a pita. Obviously, people will be upset that a beloved game mechanic, which was NEVER even mentioned as a bug, will be removed within a day.  To me, this does not convey "We care for you, our valued players.  Hugs! From the dev team."

 

 

Edited by Fairyshine
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

 

I would agree with you if the fix could be seen as something that is broken.  As things stand, it is a game mechanic which was NEVER revealed as a bug until yesterday. Someone somewhere decided it was a bug which caused...I don't know what game breaking damage.  People want to encourage us to breed less horses, so let's take away hellhorses which could replace horses for many people and encourage people to breed more horses again?  I have no idea why this change is necessary.  A lot of my friends used hellhorse carts, a lot still didn't.  The biting/burning beasties still kept some people from using them, so there was still a balance of use in the game. 

 

If the vision is that not everyone should be able to handle unruly horses, a better way would probably be to link the use of hitched horses at various ages to a certain skillset.  This means that with say 31 AH you could hitch them and command them at ages young, adol and mature.  Then you need some higher body control level to be able to command the cart once they reach say aged level, and higher body control with old, and higher body control for venerable.  People would have to have different levels of control to handle these prickly pretties, so to speak.

 

The results of this decision are clear though.  It will significantly change the enjoyment of game for many people, and to the point where even people who obviously have the skills to breed hellies and can 1. swop their own out regularly and 2. can make money selling them, are saying this change is going to push them out of the game.  The same can be said for fountain pans, which traded hands many times over and cost people real life money.  It was left in game for donkey's years and became part of the game of wurm.  It is a game mechanic that stops decay and limits chores/repairs/maintenance, so it is popular.  This "hellhorse-unhitching-at-some-magical-number-at-a-random-time" change seems to be just another method of adding adding more decay to wurm...hellhorses will get old and become too damaged to be used or repaired.  Decayed horses will be destroyed or lost and replacing them is a pita. Obviously, people will be upset that a beloved game mechanic, which was NEVER even mentioned as a bug, will be removed within a day.  To me, this does not convey "We care for you, our valued players.  Hugs! From the dev team."

 

 

15

 

Thanks for the non-offensive and mature post :)

 

Believe it or not, I agree with your proposal completely and think it's a fair game mechanic if implemented as such.  I would hope that type of proposal would also give some form of solace to those who spent the time and effort to breed the horses.

 

However, from a logical perspective, the fact that you could no longer re-hitch them after a certain age should have indicated that something was off if they "decayed" while already hitched: an obvious exploit.  Maybe not a game-breaking one, but an exploit nonetheless. 

 

Anyway, I do hope they re-evaluate how HH are to be used since it seems to matter to so many people but I stand by my original comment that I'm glad to see that bugs and exploits are being dealt with.  

 

Hopefully, once bugs are corrected, it can open rational and mature conversation on what non-bug/exploit related mechanics should exist in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Aariez said:

 

Thanks for the non-offensive and mature post :)

 

Believe it or not, I agree with your proposal completely and think it's a fair game mechanic if implemented as such.  I would hope that type of proposal would also give some form of solace to those who spent the time and effort to breed the horses.

 

However, from a logical perspective, the fact that you could no longer re-hitch them after a certain age should have indicated that something was off if they "decayed" while already hitched: an obvious exploit.  Maybe not a game-breaking one, but an exploit nonetheless. 

 

Anyway, I do hope they re-evaluate how HH are to be used since it seems to matter to so many people but I stand by my original comment that I'm glad to see that bugs and exploits are being dealt with.  

 

Hopefully, once bugs are corrected, it can open rational and mature conversation on what non-bug/exploit related mechanics should exist in the game.

 

Quite a few people have suggested that commanding a cart with them hitched even at young should require the same 31 BC that is need to ride them as a mount. Making them needed to be tamed before they can be hitched adds another layer of difficulty as they are not overly easy to tame. Then, as Fairy says, add 5 points of BC for each age past aged - old = 36, venerable = 41 to ride or command a cart with them. Or add 10 BC. If it is no skill for good benefit, add a skill. 

Sadly though, with the number of times it has been suggested the past two days, not a single reply to them. They were very quick to reply about a nerf to enchanted weapons being taken on PvP, skipping over this suggestion in its varied form as it evolved. To me that says, we don't care if we said it's because of speed calculations on the server but could not explain why a young one on a cart is fine but an old one breaks the universe so we said it's because of no skills needed to do it (ignoring completely the 50 AH to breed 5 speeds and the harder than a regular horse taming to equip them - AH and taming aren't real skills?) Then they ignore every suggestion about adding a skill set.

Simply put, whomever came up with this is adamantly against a fix or a compromise and hell bent on nerfing hell horses. If they are not, they should address the suggestions we have made to add skills to them.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Aariez said:

However, from a logical perspective, the fact that you could no longer re-hitch them after a certain age should have indicated that something was off if they "decayed" while already hitched: an obvious exploit.  Maybe not a game-breaking one, but an exploit nonetheless.

 

Except I don't think most people did see this as illogical, or as an exploit. Even in real life, younger animals are easier to control and are generally more docile. If you are working with wild animals in real life there is a big difference between one that began at a very young age to interact with human as opposed to an older one that hadn't and had lived in a more "wild" lifestyle. You would clearly expect the older animal to be much more difficult and unruly to control in this situation.

 

It logically follows that a young animal would accept being hitched and would be content to remain hitched, having that been the norm over its lifetime. Once it had been unhitched experienced freedom, it would also make sense that it would be less willing to be rehitched. I do not see what you find hard to understand about this, or what would make anyone assume it is an exploit. Seems like common sense to me.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Elizarya said:

It logically follows that a young animal would accept being hitched and would be content to remain hitched, having that been the norm over its lifetime. Once it had been unhitched experienced freedom, it would also make sense that it would be less willing to be rehitched. I do not see what you find hard to understand about this, or what would make anyone assume it is an exploit. Seems like common sense to me.

1

 

I'm not sure if you're trolling me or doing some major lawyering, but if not, there is a significant flaw in your argument.  

 

Any animal that has been "trained" from birth, even wild ones, will re-submit to the training if done right away.  Animal circuses would not work otherwise.  Granted, the longer the time that goes by the less likely they will "remember" their training, but if un-hitching and immediately trying to re-hitch is impossible, then it must mean something else is in play.  In the case of HH, it's that as they get older, they get angrier and more aggressive (they already want to kill everyone in sight!) and at some point simply refuse to be a pack mule anymore.

 

Anyway, I hope the mechanics are re-evaluated and a suggestion such as Fairy's is seriously considered.  It honestly makes the most logical sense to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of a stubborn person(or maybe more then one idk about that) keeps an update like this, after all the people wrote here?
It took me months to breed hell horses,wait for them to be born,brand,hitch and all of that.Do you have any idea how many I own and what it means to me to have to kill them all cause you decide to make them worthless!!!This makes me feel very embittered.
All because you decided something that wasn't a problem for years for anyone,all of a sudden become one that must be solved immediately.
All my work flashed down the toilet by someone who woke up in the morning in a bad mood and thinking: oh wait, let me fix (ruin) something that actually help players to have a decent speed while going around hunting,exploring and so on.
 You don't care at all about players suggestions,ideas,feelings,work,time invested.Important is to keep this aweful update at any cost,that probably make a lot of players unhappy,but oh well who cares right?
Let's keep this sad update anyway,as long as you are delighted with it.
Congratulations,I will think twice now before buying premium again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chances are the code was merged and pushed to a stable build before this "warning" went up.

 

This 'discussion' was more about letting you yell about it, but nothing will really be done in the end. Too lazy to actively reach some reasonable response.  They will assume the 'anger' will subside, and that it's 'ok' after a certain period. Look at your subscribers for a wake-up call.

 

None of them will answer any relative questions, even honest ones. I dare them to address my real concerns.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Will hear from you, Aariez, when they decide to put an end to rafts' exploiting.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2016 at 9:36 AM, Aum said:

looking for a mod that will remove the limitation all together and let you hitch everything to a cart

ditto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, conmcb25 said:

ditto

 

Unlimited has it. Thanks Bdew!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading through all the various comments and there are various interesting points. I`m not going to quote all the ones that caught my attention, but I`ll sum some of them up by saying that we are not entitled to anything. If we want something in Wurm, whether it`s terraforming, building a house, producing 90ql tools, or breeding the four legged rockets that are hell horses, then we have to put in the effort.

But in saying that, breeding hellies really only requires animal husbandry and patience. I spent months (much time was wasted trying to breed out keen senses, before I gave up and slaughtered all those) breeding my bloodline from scratch, and on the rare occasions I was attacked by one during breeding I simply backed off for a few seconds and no targetted.

And taming is only useful in the beginning, when you`re bringing home the starting stock. Don`t want to raise taming to make life a little easier? That`s your own choice.

 

 

Now...back to the topic at hand...

Given that there seems to be no speed difference between any of the ages, and that a hellhorse mount (and some ships, as according to the wiki, a fully crewed cog and caravel can do 33 and 34km/h respectively) is faster than a cart, then that casts some doubt upon the speed calculations being a valid justification for the change.

 

If we assume that hellcarts becoming the dominant strategy are the real reason behind it, then a simple solution would be to link their use with Mind Logic, while also keeping the Body Control requirement for riding them, since you are actually sitting on the creature.

A large cart requires 20.10 ML to command, a wagon is 21, and the game already does a check when you mount as commander to see if you have the required ML. Expand that check so that you need additional ML for every HH you have hitched. Let`s say 5 ML per HH, so at 30 ML you can command a hellcart, or half a hellwagon.

Fail the check, and you still mount as commander (this won`t alter the unhitching permissions), but you get an error message of "the cart/wagon team are too unruly to be commanded", or "the cart/wagon team ignore your commands", or whatever.

 

Gaining ML by just doing stuff then has the bonus reward of access to faster land travel, without making normal horses obsolete

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now