WSA: Hitched Aggressive Creature update

[sandokhan 87]

1 hour ago, Elizarya said:

 

I am afraid for me, this nerf IS a game changer. Not only is this the second nasty and unnecessary nerf within a week, it ruins quality of life for anyone that lives in mob hostile areas and/or travels a lot. I happen to do both. As of now I do not plan on renewing my subs directly as a result of this change. I am also strongly considering just selling everything I own off and leaving for good. This would include the supreme wagon pictured below, so if you might be in the market for one let me know. If you are worried the hellies may not last long enough to get it home, I can also hook you up with some bulls to use. According to Retrograde those are always a viable alternative. RIP supreme nerfwagon.

 

I meaned that since we're using the so called bug didnt change the game in general...for a single player like u and me and many others it means a lot...i like to hunt on my cart once and a while and normal 5 speed horses are realy slow when it's steep. 

The majority of players have said 'No'. So it's time for the developers to listen to us. Otherwise the developers will lose the trust of the community...

[Shazaam 158]

I'll take this next level for you. My sarcastic and witty replies earlier were censored, and that's fine, so here's the real approach.

You want opinion and constructive criticism? Pay attention if you actually care.

 

---

(Assumptions: I do not know any processes, methodology and structure in place or lack thereof)

 

 

Business Strategy and Value:

Ask yourself why things lately are receiving a growing negative responses. Do your decisions align with business strategy, and is there strategy in place that becomes a common goal for all staff?  If your changes negatively impact the user, what value have you created to compensate for this loss? Your priority is obviously to keep subscriptions growing, and just as important as maintaining current ones.

 

You should have blunt priorities, and with them comes a story of ‘why’ and ‘how’. Included with this should indicate risks and a knowledgebase of known issues and relational problems. In this case, a ‘bug’ that has been left far too long has morphed into an untended consequence of a long implemented feature. When it’s become a crutch within the game mechanics, a ‘feature’, you need to address it differently and not as a tactical change, but as an initiative for further feature development. As a developer, if you cannot clearly answer “how does this affect the user and does this bring value to the business?”, then you should consult someone who can.

 

Priority for this change is low, as the impact is nil (AFAIK). Add a new feature reworking animal hitching and breeding, link it and determine if it can be in the next milestone. If this is impacting performance (hardware/software) and in turn, bottom line, then you need to completely remove the feature or provide a reasonable alternative until a fix is made. Players have no problems dealing with severe hardware risks that negatively impact their perceived gameplay, as long it’s truthful and logical.

 

Do not patch issues such as this, in an attempt to avoid public hostility or promote some ideological perspective of ‘game progression’. Again, what risks were involved in doing nothing, doing everything and then ‘patching’ a solution?  If you misread or didn’t appreciate these risks, and the result is what you read now, do you understand why or how? If not, there is a perspective issue here. There should always be a postmortem analysis of what exactly you need to address when issues such as this go sour. Do not discount this to "whiny players" or "the vocal minority", and make assumptions that players will simply "get over it".

 

For example, the Refresh changes proposed. You offer a new feature, Food Overhaul, that directly addresses what you see as a ‘game progression’ issue (refresh). It marginalizes the 'issue' by creating better value (and progression), and therefore is resolved. Removing refresh at this point carries only risk and provides negative value as it has negligible impact. The fact that this is still perceived as a ‘good idea’ despite reneging on it shows a complete lack of business judgement and risk aversion. The same applies for the fountain-pan situation. Poor judgement overall.

 

Culturally, I see a big problem in the way things are handled. Development seems a zero-sum game from a player and a developer’s perspective lately. This is toxic for everyone, and has clearly affected the business line. The game is over 10 years old (I’ve been playing since late 2004, early 2005), and that’s no excuse to have these issues. The fact it’s lasted this long should be something to be proud of, and the fact it keeps people interested in a extremely unique setting. You have a very real problem when your premium count is down year-to-date over 35%. Commit to change, innovate your process and have a vision for your business. I know your resources are limited, but there are ways around this. Well-thought out and innovative game mechanics will come as a result of positive change, both satisfactory for you and your customers.

 

For reference, this is Wurm in the grand scheme of things, and what should happen:

 

Spoiler

 

Now, if I make improper assumptions above with the previous statements, you can move on to the next issue.

 

 

Communication:

You do not address your audience properly through communicating game-play changes. Building social capital here is beyond crucial, and there doesn’t seem any systematic method of doing so. It seems unprofessional and very reactionary at times. Most of you are volunteers, I understand, but you choose to take on the responsibilities of your positions.

 

Patch notes are no exception, and this is treated like a forum post a lot of the time, like most amateur online gaming businesses do. The last few ‘updates’ have caused a wealth of negative feedback in part due to this. Whether it is a communications issue between those with control and those relaying messages, it is of no concern to the user. This includes anything that the user has no impact or control over, such as any performance or productivity issues. You are supposed to communicate value, not excuses.

 

Address issues properly, connect and relate with your audience. Be clear and state the purpose; work out a story line that isn’t convoluted if required. Honesty can go a long way if it’s addressed properly, and can buy some much needed time and patience for complex issues. Remember Wurmageddon in spring of 2007? No one crucified Rolf et al. because they didn’t backup frequently enough, they were fuming mad sure, but the apology and overhaul of development practices lead the way to growth during Gold enhancements. The key is the active communicated value that kept the customer base from regressing too much. That’s a huge win during a catastrophic and potentially business ending situation.

 

Building a brand, marketing and communications is completely void in my opinion however. I understand the online gaming world has its own set of challenges with such a public outlet, but fundamental practices shouldn’t be avoided. If this requires extra resources, invest in it!! It’s single handily one of the most important structural pieces to your business success. You notice the stagnation and loss of customers right? It’s equally important to start here to save your existing subscriptions, and work on gaining new ones. As it stands, you have a lot of trust to rebuild in promoting this game with how recent decisions have unfolded.

 

Attempting to communicate with your audience with the sole intention of conducting some sort of business intelligence should also be a priority. You might find out a lot more about what priorities might need shifting this way. Think of it as post-marketing research, you need to understand the response and outcome to drive the next stage (iteration cycle).  Analytics and metrics do not lie, just ensure you are getting the right data to drive your decisions (see: perspective). 

 

It starts here.

 

 

I do love this game, and unfortunately for you I’m annoyed enough with recent events to promote my evil self-serving agenda: Overall Growth and Success.

 

Done.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Shazaam
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[Aaron_IRL 256]

The award for the Most Professional Post I've seen on these forums to date goes to Shazaam.

 

[Fengist 82]

The major issue here is the instant cries of "nerf!" without looking at the wide picture. currently Hell horses require zero additional skill to use vs regular horses, minus sourcing them from an animal breeder, they offer significant advantages and outpace any other creature.

 

The issue with this is escalation, as time goes on it becomes the dominant strategy, and the obvious choice to the point where using regular horses is considered a waste of time, especially as hell horses become more prevalent.

 

Someone who breeds hell horses will be able to supply themselves easily, with horses lasting about 2-3 months before needing to be cycled out, their work in breeding will not be wasted, as they can easily replace the horses in this time frame.

 

As for why this bug at this time? We're in the process of moving from one bug tracker to another, as we do so, old bugs listed are raised, and we address many questions over them, some have already been allowed to remain as part of the mechanics (with neater coding) and others have been listed as bugs to be addressed. Some, like this, have been met halfway, with making allowances for it to continue as a feature, but also correcting and balancing the issue.

 

This isn't the only change coming with the update, but we're aware that this one was better to inform players of before the update to ensure that they were prepared, and continue in improving communication with changes and updates.

 

 

Ok, so now we're starting to get another picture.  People are crying nerf because it IS a nerf.   But let's assume this is the 'real' reason behind the nerf and not any of those other silly ones mentioned in this thread like server errors or stoopid frustrated noobs...  bear (pardon the pun) with me on this.

 

You claim that HH's are becoming a dominant strategy rather than normal horses and you want to 'correct' this problem.  Why not create/increase a skill required to operate a cart with aggressive creatures hitched?  You've done this to make riding unicorns require more skill, why not HH's?  Raise that skill level even higher to operate carts that have bears hitched... and trolls even higher.

 

This solves the problem of 0 additional skill required so that you're not going to have noobs running around after week 1 with a hell cart.  This also creates a reward system for those who keep playing (and paying you to keep playing).  It also gives newer players a definitive goal and adds in new features for your older players... imagine breeding 5 speed trolls if you will.  Just imagine for a moment, the looks noobs would give to a wagon with trolls dragging it around?  As I mentioned in an earlier post... all of these things would be something to aspire to.

 

Rather than remove features to correct a problem, why not ADD features that leads users away from the problem?

 

Let me give you a lesson from an old book called The One Minute Manager:  If you have a mouse and you're trying to get them to complete a maze, you lead them through the path you want with cheese.  You don't pick them up, slap them in the head and put them back in the starting corner when they fail.

 

The 'fix' you're about to implement is a slap in the head. I strongly suggest you try cheese. Because, if you slap ME in the head enough times, a funny thing happens... my wallet slams shut.

[ClericGunem 275]

Not sure if this was addressed...does this mean that on the next server restart every hell horse on every server above old + 0.1 is going to become unhitched? which is probably the majority of hh on wagons/cart on the servers.   Did you guys do a count from the DB?  I have hell horses on four servers that there is no way i will get to in time to save (thanks for nothing there btw)

 

 And since there have been bought and sold you effectively ruining an entire market for some people and effectively throwing away money people spent for hell wagons (for a bug, that i am not sure very many even knew was a bug, i did not, made sense to be that the weak horse could not get free from a wagon, but a bear could).  So you are throwing players, customers, money away for a bug with nothing as trade off, not even a particularly good explanation. 

 

Those people away on breaks or busy will return and find horses missing due to being dead from disease / killed / lost (good luck with the support tickets lol).  Very few of us actually have breeding stock that are all caredfor (i certainly hope you do not plan to "fix" that next) 

 

Last two patches...not very encouraging 

Edited September 7, 2016 by ClericGunem

[Dorian 865]

I want to be clear I have no ill feelings to the PR team at all.  They don't make the decisions, they have the duty, which many times is an unpopular one, to put a positive 'spin' on any and all decisions that they are told to tell.  I have a clear point in my mind regarding the 'hitch fix', but that may not translate well as I type it out, so forgive me if this sounds a bit rambly.  

 

This Hitched Aggressive 'correction' appears to me as this.

• Many people do a lot of work skilling up their Animal Husbandry and spend a lot of Premium time in order to use Hell Carts. 
• There don't seem to be many who are against those who have Hell Carts, aside from the "hey don't bring that in a crowd it keeps biting me!'
• There are a lot of people who don't have or don't want to grind Animal Husbandry, but do have other skills, so they can trade for the advantage of a Hell Cart.
• The Wurm economy appears to thrive because there are a lot of people who use their skills to create items, to create trade, to help pay for different things that they can't make so that they can continue doing what they enjoy and are good at.

Now it appears that something that is an advantage to many is getting removed for some odd reason, at the request of ..any(?) of the player base?

 

Is a hell cart OP?  Is PoL Refresh OP?  Are a few fountain pan artifacts OP? Is (insert skill/item/Berris here) OP?  ((sorry Berris I couldn't resist! ))

 

Hell horses are a tool that players skill up to use for an advantage just like any other tool in Wurm, which to the best of my knowledge is a large point of this thing. Skill up something to do it better and thus have advantages.  

 

Those of us that enjoy the advantage of a Hell Cart, no matter if we make the Hellies, or buy the Hellies, or have a great friend in who just gives us a couple of Hellies are now being told in about 48 hours your tool will no longer work.  

 

This is like popping out an announcement that states " In a couple of days there will be an update to fix a server error, so your main fighting weapon/hammer/rake/etc. will fall from your inventory and will no longer be available to use if they are of a certain age.  Enjoy!"  

 

I'd love to have a clever 'sum up' that explains it all in simple words, but in lieu of that I'll just say ramble done.

 

 

[Cunk 45]

Consider making the horses explode violently when they unhitch.  That would add some spice to the game.

[Kadore 926]

3 minutes ago, Cunk said:

Consider making the horses explode violently when they unhitch.  That would add some spice to the game.

While that would be a great addition, it would drop non pvp codpieces or shoulder pads and they would call it content and remind us weekly of the great things they add to the game.

[Elizarya 71]

37 minutes ago, Cunk said:

Consider making the horses explode violently when they unhitch.  That would add some spice to the game.

 

This would also make more sense than a horse that its been on a harness its entire life just suddenly deciding at some random time to come unhitched cause... reasons

[Namekat 1,753]

Hellhorses should set wagons and carts on fire when they age

[Dorian 865]

40 minutes ago, Cunk said:

Consider making the horses explode violently when they unhitch.  That would add some spice to the game.

Hush you, that might make them think that it would make rolling a critical fail on a Genesis cast a lot more exciting!

[Fizziepop 163]

They're really not gonna tell us why or answer any of our questions. They've had plenty of time to do so and haven't yet. They seem to want to go ahead with this nerf despite all feedback to the contrary, they're not listening and I'm not either anymore. Fighting here in this thread about it is pointless. They've already lost my trust.

 

Stay tuned, Fizzie's entire Xanadu deed (with all my rare coloured horses!) will be up for auction shortly. Who is interested? I just have to figure out a starting price, as I have no clue yet.....

[JakeRivers 2,921]

You lucky they decided to announce these last few 'bug' fix's, just a few months ago there were players waking up on chaos with there favorite weapons taken away, with no warning at all when a dev decided overnight that those weapons should be removed from the game due to a enchanting bug that they ignored for literally years. I am sure if the freedom population was making wide use of these there would of been a bigger outcry than the one over fountain pan removal. They figured they would get away with it as it only affected a handful of players, still a few quite playing over this, and more still bitter over how it was handled.

 

 

[Fizziepop 163]

It never rains but it pours. Idk what they're thinking lately, but as someone who's been playing since beta, I can say it's a sad turn.

 

I am, however, looking forward to some Unlimited, for the moment, with more of the new horse models, rather than just the three here...

Edited September 8, 2016 by Fizziepop

[Elizarya 71]

18 minutes ago, Fizziepop said:

They're really not gonna tell us why or answer any of our questions. They've had plenty of time to do so and haven't yet. They seem to want to go ahead with this nerf despite all feedback to the contrary, they're not listening and I'm not either anymore. Fighting here in this thread about it is pointless. They've already lost my trust.

 

Stay tuned, Fizzie's entire Xanadu deed (with all my rare coloured horses!) will be up for auction shortly. Who is interested? I just have to figure out a starting price, as I have no clue yet.....

 

If I weren't so p*ssed I am not going to renew my sub I might be interested, that is a beautiful deed.

 

7 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

You lucky they decided to announce these last few 'bug' fix's, just a few months ago there were players waking up on chaos with there favorite weapons taken away, with no warning at all when a dev decided overnight that those weapons should be removed from the game due to a enchanting bug that they ignored for literally years. I am sure if the freedom population was making wide use of these there would of been a bigger outcry than the one over fountain pan removal. They figured they would get away with it as it only affected a handful of players, still a few quite playing over this, and more still bitter over how it was handled.

 

 

 

I wonder how many of us they intend to make quit over the poor way they treat their paying customers before they don't have enough subs to keep the game, or their jobs, going.

[Fengist 82]

 

48 minutes ago, Elizarya said:

 

I wonder how many of us they intend to make quit over the poor way they treat their paying customers before they don't have enough subs to keep the game, or their jobs, going.

 

 

At least 44%

Wurm Online premium player count graph

 

	Max	Average	Current
Returning:	5176 players	3766 players	2927 players
Total:	5179 players	3768 players	2928 players

[LorraineJ 1,099]

23 hours ago, SmeJack said:

Silly or not that is what it was and long before any of this WU stuff but don't get me wrong there sure are better things that could be 'fixed' I'm just saying it was an obvious oddity and the idea that breeding them is difficult is just as odd

 

They get ornery and attack, so that's some extra difficulty, and you've got to be more careful with your deed, so they don't get killed. As in you need to take care regarding templars, and if you're close to a tower you have to take steps because of the turds who play the game and think it's fun to get guards to attack pets.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

17 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Hell Horses will not unhitch if they age while being commanded. Having one suddenly turn old on you while out driving will not cause you to lose it.

 

 

What if you park to do something? I don't understand how this works.

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 hour ago, LorraineJ said:

 

What if you park to do something? I don't understand how this works.

when a creature ages, it is supposed to perform a check based off Battle Rating, which essentially is checking whether the creature is unruly.

 

This increases as creatures age, depending on conditions (fierce, angry, diseased, slow).

 

The issue occurring is despite this check occurring, the unhitching did not happen, thus the creature stayed hitched.

 

Of course, this has mostly become an issue since the unhitching upon restarts bug was fixed, in the past any restart unhitched animals, meaning hell horses were not possible to utilize past their hitchable age

 

Now when a creature ages, and hits the appropriate age (expanded to just on the cusp of aged/old (30) it will also check if the vehicle it is hitched to is occupied. If it is it simply does not unhitch and the horse carries on as normal. The check only occurs again once it ages again (to 31) Which would be roughly 1-2 days or so.

 

This means that disembarking, or having to relog will not immediately cause the animal to unhitch and run off, if the cart is parked when you are doing something however it can lead to that, ensuring horses wear saddles and are branded, they will not run and cannot be harmed by others, contrary to other suggestions.

 

I agree with the need to be able to determine when horses are nearing that age, and will be working with the dev team to ensure that as much information can be gleaned as possible.

[bdew 2,462]

On 9/6/2016 at 7:39 PM, Elizarya said:

I REALLY want to see a cart pulled by chickens Aum

 

I'm just going to leave this here

 

[Elizarya 71]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:47 AM, DevBlog said:

1 hour ago, bdew said:

 

I'm just going to leave this here

 

While there was discussion about simply allowing this to remain as is, it can often lead to frustration and confusion about hitching aggressive creatures, as well as errors regarding speed calculations on the server side.

 

YOU, sir, are my hero. Up until now anyone that knows me will tell you I have been very WU resistant. I have not bought a copy, and was very firm about continuing to support the game via monthly subs. The inherent stupidity of this nerf, combined with this visual proof that there are players capable and willing of quickly fixing whatever insane decision CCAB chooses to make next has just changed that. I will now not only be not renewing my subs, I will be buying a copy of WU asap. I hope CCAB spends the $30 wisely, because it is the last they will be seeing from me.

[Audrel 2,223]

7 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

You lucky they decided to announce these last few 'bug' fix's, just a few months ago there were players waking up on chaos with there favorite weapons taken away, with no warning at all when a dev decided overnight that those weapons should be removed from the game due to a enchanting bug that they ignored for literally years. I am sure if the freedom population was making wide use of these there would of been a bigger outcry than the one over fountain pan removal. They figured they would get away with it as it only affected a handful of players, still a few quite playing over this, and more still bitter over how it was handled.

 

 

 

Yeah, that one was malarkey. You should have had a notification to chose one to be removed and be required to have it dispelled and if you did not, then it be removed.

[Retrograde 12,013]

1 minute ago, Audrel said:

 

Yeah, that one was malarkey. You should have had a notification to chose one to be removed and be required to have it dispelled and if you did not, then it be removed.

The items were removed and replaced, players did not suddenly just lose them, it just took time to give them all out.

[Audrel 2,223]

Just now, Retrograde said:

The items were removed and replaced, players did not suddenly just lose them, it just took time to give them all out.

 

Jake says otherwise but it didn't happen to me personally. I don't play on PvP and they don't generally like Freedom in their PvP-only affairs. I will take both of your words for it. I wasn't there.

 

[Baloo 709]

Wurm Dev's and Rolf: LISTEN to your customers !

 

This reminds me of when a 0.5kg mooring rope could be used to lead 4 animals, but because it "was not intended", this got stopped and replaced with a 2kg halter rope, which is a swine to make!  Bah !  I still have to carry a rope and keep the halter rope in equipped backpack...  Stupid and annoying to say the least.