Disable No Characteristic loss for non prems on pvp

[Ostentatio 1,971]

This seems like it was a sketchy idea to begin with, and I can't help but thinking that Factional Fight suggesting it is what got it implemented so quickly in the first place.

 

People make tons of good suggestions, including relatively simple QoL things, and yet something as fundamental to the game as what a premium account is is getting altered because some Youtube guys made a suggestion.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Ostentatio

[Retrograde 12,013]

Not at all, plenty of suggestions are raised. Some take a little longer than others, some require extra discussion.

 

With a lot of returning players we want to be able to give them the freedom to organise themselves and hopefully stick around playing, thus the ability to ride a horse, pilot their boat (if they had one) and carry their usual equipment weight. Being premium allows gaining skills, skills over 20, and various other features. This will not allow those who have never had premium to go over 20 characteristics, and may even have limitations put on it still. Premium will always be the better choice.

 

Being suggested by the FF team is mostly coincidental, returning player issues were already being looked at, I just gave credit to them for bringing it up.

[TradingAlt 946]

1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

Not at all, plenty of suggestions are raised. Some take a little longer than others, some require extra discussion.

 

With a lot of returning players we want to be able to give them the freedom to organise themselves and hopefully stick around playing, thus the ability to ride a horse, pilot their boat (if they had one) and carry their usual equipment weight. Being premium allows gaining skills, skills over 20, and various other features. This will not allow those who have never had premium to go over 20 characteristics, and may even have limitations put on it still. Premium will always be the better choice.

 

Being suggested by the FF team is mostly coincidental, returning player issues were already being looked at, I just gave credit to them for bringing it up.

So you are blowing off the fact that the PVP'rs are against this. And you are gonna stick them with it anyway?

 

Lets do some simple logic and reasoning here.

 

Term 1: A community affected by this change is against it. (the pvp community)

Term 2: The same community Affected by this change is also only asking for it to be changed in their realm (pvp servers)

Term 3: You are the Public Relations Officer, whose role it is to communicate with the player base and find out what is good for the player base as a whole.

Term 4: You seem to not care what said community wants for itself (the pvp community not wanting this change on the servers they play on)

 

 

Am I missing something? 

 

People have been asking for changes to make the pvp experience more enjoyable, and here were are yet again where the wurm team has crafted some idea that completely pushes the pvp community further down the drain.

 

I mean we can't even lead enemy horses on their deeds still...

 

 

 

 

Look this post may seem a bit angry, but you must understand that's because I really am angry. 

 

 

                  CAN YOU LISTEN PLEASE?

[Postinglels 1,270]

Or you can come to the same conclusion that I and several others came to jukimo, while hoping otherwise to be the case

[KyleBooze 451]

On 6/25/2016 at 5:41 AM, Retrograde said:

There are issues with behaviour on alts and while there have been limitations in the past (Such as the no local) I think that more needs to be done to address them as a whole rather than limiting this. Allowing older players who return to move, sail and have some form of easing back in is handy and this may be an opportunity to address other concerns raised too.

 

It should be fairly evident, but I will raise this with the development team and see if we can identify a solution that benefits both returning players, and PvPers.

 

So... you want people to play, but you don't necessarily want them to pay? Just give them the ability to use large carts (not wagons) and sailboats. Don't remove the characteristic cap, raise it to like 30 or something. Unless it's on a pvp server, in which case leave the cap alone or don't allow non-prem on pvp servers.

 

I've always seen the limits as incentives to pay. A new player sees everything a premium player can do with no caps on skills and characteristics and decides to prem up to get more of the freedom to do things. If you keep letting free players do more and more stuff, eventually there will be no need to pay for premium.

Edited June 27, 2016 by KyleBooze

[Budda 2,675]

Will be disabled on PvP for the foreseeable future until some other changes to PvP servers are made (also capped to 30 on non-PvP).

 

I'm hoping we can do these PvP changes in a way that we can get those servers to a point where we don't have to disable features and changes for fear of abuse - after then we can start putting changes like this in.

[zigozag 918]

Great!

 

But...

2 minutes ago, Budda said:

 (also capped to 30 on non-PvP).

The reasoning mentioned by those stream guys was: you log in after a long break, buildings/fences are gone, there're monsters, you can't move loaded with all the heavy valuable stuff you have, then you die, because you can't run away, and ragequit for good. 30 cap is not going to help in this situation. if you had 50bs and a bunch of equipment of corresponding weight.

[TradingAlt 946]

45 minutes ago, Budda said:

Will be disabled on PvP for the foreseeable future until some other changes to PvP servers are made (also capped to 30 on non-PvP).

 

I'm hoping we can do these PvP changes in a way that we can get those servers to a point where we don't have to disable features and changes for fear of abuse - after then we can start putting changes like this in.

thank you!

 

now about leading them horses on enemy deeds  >.>

[Shamgar 116]

8 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

 

So... you want people to play, but you don't necessarily want them to pay?

 

I don't think the team should encourage players not to pay. If you are a returning player with amazing stats then you should know better to premium back up. I get annoyed when people say they been busy with work but then can't pay a small premium fee and expect more for free. I have noticed some ungrateful players and this caters to many of them. If it was up to me there would be no free game play but that's another topic.

[Ostentatio 1,971]

7 hours ago, Budda said:

Will be disabled on PvP for the foreseeable future until some other changes to PvP servers are made (also capped to 30 on non-PvP).

 

I'm hoping we can do these PvP changes in a way that we can get those servers to a point where we don't have to disable features and changes for fear of abuse - after then we can start putting changes like this in.

 

This sounds fairly reasonable, although I guess there's still a lot of incentive to premium an alt up temporarily just to get them able to ride horses, boats, etc., then you've got a pretty damn functional f2p alt (or several) for eternity. I know of some people who keep premium on their alts mostly for things like being able to pilot ships, but I don't know how common that is. An additional 10 strength is also another 70 kilograms of junk that a mule can carry, although you can have as many of those as you want anyway so I suppose that doesn't matter much.

 

It would be nice if there were some kind of actual honest-to-god solution to alt abuse, mules, etc., but that's a tough nut to crack.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Ostentatio

[Cornchips 3,037]

OR JUST ###### REMOVING F2P FROM PVP SERVERS INSTEAD OF BANDAINDING EVERY SINGLE THING THAT'S EVER DONE FOR F2P

HOW IS IT INTENDED TO BE A VIABLE PLAYSTYLE IF THEY'RE GIMPED TO ALL HELL ON PVP SERVERS

Edited June 27, 2016 by Cornchips

[MaurizioAM 919]

On 6/25/2016 at 8:57 AM, Wargasm said:

 

Great.  Until a better solution is reached, put a hold on the implementation of no characteristic loss.  You have acknowledged and agreed that this is an issue, so there is no reason the devs should move forward with the proposal.

 

Compromise isn't going to work easily on this one.  While you may come up with some form of "compromise" to disallow an alt from being able to embark on a horse/wagon on Chaos, said alt may be able to command a knarr on Freedom, sail it to Chaos and still be in the driver's seat.  While I know this is trivial compared to the other potential forms of abuse that this ridiculous idea brings, it still bears mentioning.

The bigger problem here is the fact the same saga continues with the chaos or proclaimed PVPers... It is very quick to see this could be a problem but at the same time as a pvper you must also see that something has to be done to allow old players the ability to come back. Not only old players but this also affects side line players possibly wanting to get into wurm.

 

Some type of change is needed and what is needed more instead of +1's to a no you cant implement this type comment, we as pvpers nees to open our thoughts to think about how something like thia CAN be implemented without negatively affecting PVP.

 

There are many stipulations that can be put in place to deter a player from abusing a high str non premium account. Everyone should realise that in order to have high str one must have a pretty decent amount of other high skilled skills such as crafting or labour intensive skills. Perhaps we might think of ways that if you were in the shoes of being able to take advantage of this kind of change what would make you NOT want to use your account in pvp situations.

 

Overall everyone agrees for pvp a change like this cannot just be put into play without further stipulations attached. But for wurm as a whole a change like this NEEDS to be implemented as it affects way way more people then the pvp community.

 

My first suggestion is a stat cap of 30 because as a player 30 would allow players to still play the game. They would not be scary in a pvp setting. I also suggest a line of code reading "if non prem catapulting disabled if on pvp server. I also suggest a pvp death to be 2 - 4x the normal loss and as a non prem make a pvp loss as if it were a pve loss so random skills are hit hard.

 

[MaurizioAM 919]

-1 for reasons listed above.. This sort of change is needed in some way shape or form. 

 

However, stipulations are 100% necessary on pvp servers to deter abuse.

[ClericGunem 275]

why not make it prem only on chaos at least?  makes itso boat/ship cannot cross to chaos unless every char is prem and has some skill/characteristic minimum like FS or body?  Maybe even transfer alls that already do not meet the criteria to Xanadu (after fair warning).

 

Is there anyone without an ulterior motive actually wanting to keep no-prem fresh roll alts on chaos?  What would a low skill alt, especially a non-prem be able to do in chaos that would not be easier and more efficiently outside of chaos?  

 

If there was a skill and investment wall then it should prevent a large part of what PvPers are constantly complaining about around alts.  And then the kingdoms can setup recruitment and basic training camps and it would be a goal to get into chaos and one would be better prepared. A lot of games I have played have a minimum for getting to PvP and some treat PvP as end-game content for a reason.  

[MaurizioAM 919]

50 minutes ago, ClericGunem said:

why not make it prem only on chaos at least?  makes itso boat/ship cannot cross to chaos unless every char is prem and has some skill/characteristic minimum like FS or body?  Maybe even transfer alls that already do not meet the criteria to Xanadu (after fair warning).

 

Is there anyone without an ulterior motive actually wanting to keep no-prem fresh roll alts on chaos?  What would a low skill alt, especially a non-prem be able to do in chaos that would not be easier and more efficiently outside of chaos?  

 

If there was a skill and investment wall then it should prevent a large part of what PvPers are constantly complaining about around alts.  And then the kingdoms can setup recruitment and basic training camps and it would be a goal to get into chaos and one would be better prepared. A lot of games I have played have a minimum for getting to PvP and some treat PvP as end-game content for a reason.  

Because ots been tried before and more complaints about not being able to fully experiance the game as a F2P player. 

 

Sometimes its just easier to have everything opened up for players regardless if they will be of great benefit or not. Restrictions and stipulations are all that is necessary to avoid abuse. Restricting this kind of update altogether on pvp would do more harm then good for wurm as a whole.

[TradingAlt 946]

1 hour ago, MaurizioAM said:

 It is very quick to see this could be a problem but at the same time as a pvper you must also see that something has to be done to allow old players the ability to come back. Not only old players but this also affects side line players possibly wanting to get into wurm.

 

Some type of change is needed and what is needed more instead of +1's to a no you cant implement this type comment, we as pvpers nees to open our thoughts to think about how something like thia CAN be implemented without negatively affecting PVP.

 

There already is, its called buying premium. Lots of people do it regularly.

[Wargasm 1,928]

17 hours ago, Budda said:

Will be disabled on PvP for the foreseeable future until some other changes to PvP servers are made (also capped to 30 on non-PvP).

 

I'm hoping we can do these PvP changes in a way that we can get those servers to a point where we don't have to disable features and changes for fear of abuse - after then we can start putting changes like this in.

 

Buddha-  thank you VERY much for an official response on this issue.  I can't help but wish we had these more often, but I understand you're busy.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

this no different than any other game

Eve for instance quit playing with all your ###### in a player station better hope its in friendly hands when you return. Wurm is no different. Poor planning on where you last left your character is no ones fault but your own. You could of parked it at a starter town if you were thinking rather than moaning about one death.