Sindusk

[WU] Datamining

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Hi, I'd like to ask about thrown items. What are all the variables that affect thrown item damage? So far I've heard that body strength, QL, Weight, Heat and Focus affect thrown damage. What about the base damage of the item if it's a weapon, or skills like fighting, fighting style, archery, etc.? There's very limited info on the wiki about throwing things.

 

Also, is there a way for me to browse the server code although I play wurm online?

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This thread is just great. Thank you, SIndusk.

 

On 10.08.2016 at 1:25 AM, Richgar said:

Also, is there a way for me to browse the server code although I play wurm online?

Hacking, i believe, would be the only way. Don't do it. It's dangerous for the hamsters.

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I wouldn't be surprised if decompiled versions of the WU server and client code are available online somewhere.

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On 16.06.2016 at 3:07 PM, Sindusk said:
  • The rarity window lasts 20 seconds. This can be increased by up to 10 through the deed Enchanting bonus.
  • When you take an action in the rarity window, you get a "Moment of Inspiration" drumroll

Does the action need to be started AND ended during the rarity window?

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9 hours ago, zigozag said:

Does the action need to be started AND ended during the rarity window?

started

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Is there a chance you could do a simulation for Addy weapons vs Glimmer and different rarities?

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2 hours ago, MootRed said:

Is there a chance you could do a simulation for Addy weapons vs Glimmer and different rarities?

 

glimmer is always better in terms of dps if you're using nimbleness instead of woa

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You show that Normal and Aggressive fighting stances have a bonus CR when attacking and Aggressive has a penalty when defending but Defensive isn't listed at all. This would imply that Normal is superior unless defensive has a bonus when defending, right? Was that not shown or is there some sort of non CR bonus that defensive gives?

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I'm also interested in advantages/disadvantages when comparing the three stances. In my experience, defensive sucks (PvE). Further, it's almost as if WU's PvE combat system isn't balance so a defensive style stance puts a player at a disadvantage.

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11 hours ago, Corny105 said:

You show that Normal and Aggressive fighting stances have a bonus CR when attacking and Aggressive has a penalty when defending but Defensive isn't listed at all. This would imply that Normal is superior unless defensive has a bonus when defending, right? Was that not shown or is there some sort of non CR bonus that defensive gives?

Defensive has a lower parry timer. You can parry far more often with defensive stance than you would with normal or aggressive, that's it's main advantage. I would answer in more detail but I am still quite busy.

21 hours ago, MootRed said:

Is there a chance you could do a simulation for Addy weapons vs Glimmer and different rarities?

In general Glimmer will be better than Addy in all scenarios unless the damage increase allows you to attack less. For example, if an iron axe does 48% damage per hit, addy will hit for over 50% allowing you to 2-shot something instead of 3-shot, which is more effective than glimmer. However, when you deal lets say 40% of somethings health per hit, that increase to 44% will still force you to hit 3 times, in which case glimmer will be better. Because of this, Glimmer is almost always the better choice by logic alone. It also stacks with WoA and makes the WoA speed increased more pronounced, so Glimmer is usually the better bet.

 

In terms of raw DPS they should be equivalent when not enchanted, though.

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 6:27 PM, Alexgopen said:

 

glimmer is always better in terms of dps if you're using nimbleness instead of woa

 

Nimbleness > Wind Of Ages?

 

7 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Defensive has a lower parry timer. You can parry far more often with defensive stance than you would with normal or aggressive, that's it's main advantage. I would answer in more detail but I am still quite busy.

In general Glimmer will be better than Addy in all scenarios unless the damage increase allows you to attack less. For example, if an iron axe does 48% damage per hit, addy will hit for over 50% allowing you to 2-shot something instead of 3-shot, which is more effective than glimmer. However, when you deal lets say 40% of somethings health per hit, that increase to 44% will still force you to hit 3 times, in which case glimmer will be better. Because of this, Glimmer is almost always the better choice by logic alone. It also stacks with WoA and makes the WoA speed increased more pronounced, so Glimmer is usually the better bet.

 

In terms of raw DPS they should be equivalent when not enchanted, though.

 

Help me understand: Nim increases CR but does CR cap out? For example, if I have 90FS and there is already a CR+3 to Animals or if I am King and have CR bonus, does it cap?

 

If there is a cap, then Nim would not help my weapons?

 

WOA increases swing timer on all weapons? I like to use Large Mauls because it has a better parry chance than Huge Axe. In the most perfect scenario I can have a Rare Glimmersteel Large Maul with WOA 90 even though Adamantine increase damage output by 10%, unless I am going for One-shot or TWO-shot, glimmer steel would be more effective in long battles like against Ogre Mages or PVP.

Is there a cap on swing-timer?

 

Edited by MootRed

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For clarity, Wind of Ages used to malfunction because of poor mathematics calculations earlier in Wurm Unlimited. It used to function at maximum power when the cast was 1, then have no effect at 100. That math was corrected as a change from Wurm Unlimited version 1.0.0.5 -> 1.0.0.6. It was not mentioned in patch notes.

 

Wind of Ages, as it currently stands, reduces the swing timer per attack by 0.005 seconds per power. At 100 power, Wind of Ages effectively reduces the swing timer by 0.5 seconds. This is, of course, quite significant. Nimbleness does not stack with Wind of Ages, yet has a different effect - increasing Combat Rating. Which one is better is highly dependant on many factors. For starters, CR calculations are different in PvE and PvP. Gaining CR from fight skill is 1 CR = 10 fight skill in PvE, and 1 CR = 5 fight skill in PvP. This results with larger values of CR in PvP, making CR a less desired trait. However, for PvE, having a 90 nimbleness weapon at ~20 fight skill will essentially double your hit chance against any given opponent. For example, without nimbleness, 20 FS = 3 CR. Against a 5 CR opponent, that's a 3/8 (37.5%) chance to hit them. With 90 nimbleness giving you +3 CR for a total of 6 CR, you have a 6/11 (54%) chance to hit them. In general lower fight skill/CR values will gain more benefit from Nimbleness than Wind of Ages.

 

So how does that compare to Wind of Ages, exactly? It doesn't. Every single scenario will be different and the calculations will be different. Combat is an incredibly deep and complex system with so many variables it will make your head spin. I can't see a way to simplify it to the point where you can say "Wind of Ages is better than Nimbleness" or vice-versa. As for personal preference, I like Wind of Ages. It stacks with Glimmersteel and allows you to hit weapon speed thresholds able to make weapons that appear awful on the surface shine. Here's a new spreadsheet including glimmer weapon damages. I made this a few weeks after I posted this thread originally, but kept it hidden away while I was playing to maintain an advantage.

 

Glimmersteel Weapons in the Weapon Damage Table. Note: The word "Fast" means Wind of Ages [100] enchant and Glimmersteel material. This is simply a "theoretical maximum" in terms of raw DPS.

Spoiler

jOUcKIS.png

 

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As a disclaimer for that graph, as I drew up a similar one myself: don't take the Damage column too literally. That undergoes a good number of transformations by item type before it turns into raw damage.

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1 hour ago, Stanlee said:

As a disclaimer for that graph, as I drew up a similar one myself: don't take the Damage column too literally. That undergoes a good number of transformations by item type before it turns into raw damage.

This is correct - the values on the graph are pulled directly from the game's raw data. They do not represent in-game results.

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here's a couple of things I did just to add in to this info

 

Transformation liquids helper - you need to download this one yourself and change the grey values, and the green one according to the graph on the right. Done right, you can work out about how much transformation liquid you'll need according to your average output QL. Yeah, trouble to work out average sooner, but it matters too much to leave out.

 

Taming difficulty - I generally leave this on "already tamed, venerable" but it shows the taming difficulty of various animals as well as how fast they untame. Good for fine-tuning taming grinds. Can download to change the yellow variables.

 

Will probably get around to some questions here when I get bored.

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On 8/9/2016 at 11:25 PM, Richgar said:

What are all the variables that affect thrown item damage?

 

Running through the relevant code, these are mentioned:

Weapon skill with the item (increases hit chance)

Time of day (same as archery)

Strength (defines max throw distance, max throw weight, multiplier for damage)

Nimbleness (lowers difficulty)

Distance (can't do if too close)

Trees in the way (increases difficulty)

Person you're throwing at is moving (increases difficulty)

Are they uphill from you (increases difficulty)

Defender's body control (increases difficulty)

Item QL (increases hit chance IF the thrown item uses a weapon skill)

Your body control (increases hit chance if it doesn't use a weapon skill)

Did they parry with a shield (miss)

Did they evade (miss)

Base damage for weapon type, specifically when thrown (varies by item)

Item QL (increases damage)

Focus level (1.5 times damage at first level of focus, another 1.5 times damage at fourth level)

Temperature (only if a liquid, increases damage)

Weight (only if a liquid, increases damage)

Their armour (reduces damage, armour takes damage)

Is it a leather or studded leather boot (gives an achievement)

 

I now have one more achievement.

Edited by Stanlee
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7 hours ago, Sindusk said:

-snip-

 

Wow, thanks for the comprehensive response.

If adamantine increases damage by 10% then max DPS you can get with HUGE AXE on aggressive is less than DPS with glimmersteel.

 

The glimmersteel Halberd though.

Edited by MootRed

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On 6/19/2016 at 8:15 PM, Sindusk said:

I misspoke in my OP. It does seem to imply that "Channeling is the only factor" - when what I really meant was "Channeling is the only skill." I apologize for the confusion and will change the OP. My simulations account for the other factors at play, and max out the bonus every time, considering how easy it is to do so.

 

Could you possibly run a simulation for someone below max skill (60-80 range) with less than max enchanting/alignment/altar bonuses to show how big an effect the bonus has.

 

How is the bonus calculated? altar ql + alignment + enchanting bonus, but with what modifiers?

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Is there a max CR? Meaning, if i have 99 fight skill, having CR +3 doesnt make a difference?

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3 hours ago, MootRed said:

Is there a max CR? Meaning, if i have 99 fight skill, having CR +3 doesnt make a difference?

Maximum CR is 100. Minimum is 1. Only uniques will be able to have over 100 CR. Such as a champion dragon.

 

Combat Rating calculation can be seen in the first post of this thread. In PvP 1/5 of your fight skill is CR. In PvE, 1/10 of your fight skill is CR. So for example 70 FS would have 14 CR in PvP, and 7 CR in PvE. When applying additions from kingdom bonuses, enchantments, etc. the cap would probably still remain under 100. I don't think anyone has done a theoretical max, but the pseudocode in the first post of the thread should allow you to do that if you desire.

 

Here is a list of combat ratings for existing creatures (immortal creatures like guides, lady of the lake, etc. have been hidden [except for Joe, he's there out of respect]):

7fUSmHZ.png

OzuF0ea.png

OVHZE56.png

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Could you shine some light on how armor archery/casting effects work, please?

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On 8/26/2016 at 10:19 PM, Stanlee said:

Transformation liquids helper - you need to download this one yourself and change the grey values, and the green one according to the graph on the right. Done right, you can work out about how much transformation liquid you'll need according to your average output QL. Yeah, trouble to work out average sooner, but it matters too much to leave out.

 

Did you test this in WO to see if it predicts amounts needed? I made something similar Transmute calc (except I intentionally left PvP part out as ,imo, I don't think that should be part of Wurm). My calc seem to derived the same values. I messed up in WO and applied a full Lrg amphora to sand so I couldn't test it.

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