Posted June 15, 2016 Once upon a time you used to have to travel to where you wanted to get to. Recently, there's been many changes that make travelling much easier, and relatively risk free. Of course, there's absolutely no counter to prevent the enemy from karma-teleporting more or less directly ontop of you into their deed while you are raiding. As Retrograde had pointed out when he was surveying PvP kingdoms, he said that the general consensus was PvPers wanted to make raiding easier. So what actually involves making raiding easier? Well, forcing the enemy to actually travel to their deeds, where you can counter them by either blocking their path, walling in entrances, and other things of a related nature. What makes raiding harder? When at any point in time, a defender can instantly teleport in from across the server, maybe alone, maybe with a group, and instantly get to work on defending his deed - one that might even lack the proper infrastructure to even get to safely if you were to travel to it. Removing karma teleporting also promotes actually travelling from place to place on a PvP server, where you have the chance at ambushes, among other things. Generally, this topic is heavily opposed by a specific group of players whom more or less call to arms "-1" threads that have any negative effect on their kingdom, preventing positive changes from being pushed forward, so keep that in mind when reading through this suggestion, which has been posted many times. Travelling has always encouraged PvP. I'm not sure why instantly moving from point A to the safety of point B instantly is even a considered mechanic on the PvP server. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 15, 2016 -1 useless thread, close pls. now that we're done with that part: is it really necessary to open a thread on this yet again? don't the threads for this matter already number in the dozens? 8 minutes ago, UnknownOrganism said: As Retrograde had pointed out when he was surveying PvP kingdoms, he said that the general consensus was PvPers wanted to make raiding easier. yes, and he also said that the census was to put restrictions on teleporting. he has yet to announce any of the changes that will be made but the announcements will come once they are ready. is it really asking too much to simply wait and stop repeating the same threads over and over again? i think we got it by now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 15, 2016 oh look there they are. just as anticipated. stop trolling my thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, UnknownOrganism said: oh look there they are. just as anticipated. stop trolling my thread Giving ones opinion that does not match yours is not trolling. Spexially as it effects the people +1/-1 the thread. Total removing is not good, maybe time limit for being part of the deed is the thing needed. Even 24h would change alot. One should always have a chance to teleport to defend a deed he lives at. Edited June 15, 2016 by Wulfgarr 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 15, 2016 19 minutes ago, Wulfgarr said: Giving ones opinion that does not match yours is not trolling. Spexially as it effects the people +1/-1 the thread. Total removing is not good, maybe time limit for being part of the deed is the thing needed. Even 24h would change alot. One should always have a chance to teleport to defend a deed he lives at. or live at the deed instead of playing on freedom or have proper infrastructure in and out you know multiple boat mines & securing your enterances, instead of just planting a deed in the middle of nowhere, or hopping from deed to deed. 24 hours isn't going to fix anything. It needs to be a week minimum. If Hello is hit 2 drains deep, it's not that hard to wait for a 24 hour cooldown so that you can karma in. Everyone can just have their most vulnerable deed karmaport ready. It's nothing to do with their opinion. Dalvin had absolutely no reason why he -1'd other than "the change will come" even though it's again a simple fix compared to something like Rifts, and Jukimo added no valuable contribution. Your post has been the only one which promoted discussion. 24 hours would be a bandaid at best. Players shouldn't be encouraged to sprawl across the map. Never had any issue getting to/from a deed, ever. Even while Comm was being raided I successfully entered and exited from a nearby deed without karmaporting. Such is life when you're not sprawled across the map. Discourage over extension, promote living in deeds.. Simple as that. On Chaos there's only one kingdom which has sprawled far from their deeds. Ebonaura, Black Legion & JK especially haven't had much of an issue. Not sure about the epic situation. Farwalker stones and twigs are both 5s, karmaporting is playervalue, 1s. If you want to teleport to your deed, buy a farwalker twig / stone. I haven't ever complained about either the stone or twig, nor have I seen anyone complain about either of them for a long time. Not saying remove twigs/stones. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 -1 What's the point of hitting empty deeds and avoiding PVP. Playing in freedom if all you want to do is loot, lots of dead deeds there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) As I say just about every time this comes up, dropping deeds over the map and porting around magically to defend is bad. Porting to defend your legit home should be left as is -Require being a citizen for a week/month to teleport to it but only a timer if there are enemy in the deed local. This leaves non-pvp porting and recruit porting, neither affect pvp -Can have a size/guard requirement to teleport in, such as 1 guard can teleport and 0 guard cannot teleport, and minimum size deed is a no go but some larger size is ok -Can have some time requirement for the deed itself too such as a few weeks or a month or something after founding before you can teleport in with enemy in the deed local -Add a small timer for when enemy leave local before you can port in, like 5 minutes or something, maybe 10 dunno Maybe a few other things but a combo of stuff like this would cut pretty much most abuse outside of when people stay a villager of a war deed naturally for that long, but that's kinda ok because then they can't just swap villages and go somewhere else Edit: more added Edited June 16, 2016 by MrGARY 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 -1 I can see eventually there will be no purpose for karma ports for jk when they are down to just kyara, unless you just want a easier method to move from one side to the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, TradingAlt said: -1 teleporting encourages pvp gatehopping =/= pvp PvP would be you getting cut off trying to get to deed and getting wiped, like you usually do whenever people of proper experience fight you. 12 minutes ago, JakeRivers said: -1 I can see eventually there will be no purpose for karma ports for jk when they are down to just kyara, unless you just want a easier method to move from one side to the other. Not really a reason, just a poor attempt at trolling. Edited June 16, 2016 by Propheteer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 Quote Dalvin had absolutely no reason why he -1'd other than "the change will come" even though it's again a simple fix compared to something like Rifts Not gonna bother about u not even getting the name right. Yes, it might be an easier fix, but no better than a bandaid either. Gary gave some good points. Non-pvp porting and recruit porting. Why break stuff like that when its unnecessary? Sometimes karma tps are pretty useful in annoying bug situations or when being out in the woods and suddenly having to leave due to rl circumstances. Yes, yes. I know. "U could aswell just use twigs/stones!!!". But why make the game require more cash items than it needs to have? But then again all these changes need time to be balanced aswell or the feature would turn completely useless like others that have been fixed within a short timeframe. (Meditation enlightenment anyone?) If you can contribute more well thought out solutions feel free to. But dont bother with the "just remove everything"-bandaid. As for garys suggestions: 1. +1 but set the required citizenship timer to range from the actual age of the kingdom to a certain limit to not be disadvantagous for newly established ones. 2. +1 for the guard requirement i guess. Maybe bind the timer after enemies leave local to "is the guard alive?" Yes being ok to teleport in. 3. Not a bad idea either, yet please consider a limit based on kingdom age. Everyone says the pvp servers need new blood, so giving defense disadvantages to newly established kingdoms should be a no-go. Maybe even lift these restrictions for them during the first month? Doubt theres a way to really abuse this considering the big cost to found a pmk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 Well UnknownOrganism saw fit to mention me when I haven't even commented, I think he was responding to Arium? Anyway, I understand the utility Karmaing brings to the table but I have honestly never karma ported so even its removal would not effect my gameplay in the slightest. If your true point is that sprawling kingdoms are bad for the map I would tend to agree but I think that SHOULD be part of a more comprehensive pvp overhaul. From my personal viewpoint, I would say suggest a cap on the number of deeds in a kingdom, change the setting for alliance so it really means kingdom and set a new layer of politics over the game as alliances. That would have allowed MRs recent merger with Ebo to happen without forcing them to give up the majority of their identity. That would encourage diplomacy and subterfuge to make and break alliances. I don't see why you couldn't set a permissions system for tower guards to allow them to treat allies the same as kingdoms. Seeing Ariums post a moment ago I would go even further, you want to encourage new blood, allow a newly founded kingdom say a month to establish itself, make it so that a brand new kingdoms area of influence is treated as freedom rulesets, no pvp allowed, no raiding. That would give every new kingdom a small timeframe to establish themselves before entering into the fray. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 Gary's ideas have been mine for a while and I've expressed these before since they give the best balance, infact there should be no argument against it unless you abuse karma to defend, nothing unfair with the changes for either side of a raid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Dalvin said: Whoops. Didn't check the name of who I was replying to. Neither have avatars so I guess I just picked a name out of a hat and went with it. At least you have a reasonable, thought provoking response. 9 hours ago, JakeRivers said: -1 I can see eventually there will be no purpose for karma ports for jk when they are down to just kyara, unless you just want a easier method to move from one side to the other. MR has always been the kingdom that relied on karmaporting more than JK. Since BL would hit your deeds on the other side of the map, there was like, 1 time that you didn't karmaport. Of course, that's before the server travel changes - and that's why you don't need karmaporting. It's super easy to get around now. I don't recall Ebonaura once using Karmaport, I think JK might've used it a handful of times since I've joined, and as BL I recall twice when we used it. Once to kill Lovefall, and I used it to help defend Comm. I'm totally down with the "be a villager for a week/month" compromise. Makes sense, and although I still wouldn't give a ###### if I had to set a wardeed as my village permanently, I think it would more or less fix the majority of my issue with karmaporting. 9 hours ago, Arium said: If you can contribute more well thought out solutions feel free to. But dont bother with the "just remove everything"-bandaid. More or less things like SotG and karmaporting are things that probably should've never made the game in the first place, in my opinion. You've thrown it in the mix with things like crossing from PvE and now lol if you get caught travelling from point A to point B on a boat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 -1 Remove all rules on pvp-servers. we need fun and not rules! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 33 minutes ago, Klingone said: -1 Remove all rules on pvp-servers. we need fun and not rules! don't post unless you have anything meaningful to contribute Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 -1, you can easily make a wurm unlimited server with the rules you want and stop spamming the suggestion forums instead. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 16, 2016 10 minutes ago, madnezz said: -1, you can easily make a wurm unlimited server with the rules you want and stop spamming the suggestion forums instead. thanks but that doesn't contribute to the suggestion because this is a wurm online suggestion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) My view is it don't create pvp. There's been quite a few times i have been out lost on a cart and ended up with enemy in local, and i have just karma out to save my own neck. (ie just get to edge of local for 2 secs so they dont show then karma) I also think it's wrong people can just karma in when your deed is being raided, not the first time I have seen people wait till the enemy is at the token then try to karma on them, another reason people are probably using no stat alts to drain. The last point i would say is a number of times I have been stuck at a deed and would have had to ride home hoping not to get killed. I can now karma to get home safe without even seeing pvp. I am just posting my view and ain't going to debate it. +1 Edited June 17, 2016 by shakys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2016 Suggesting forum moved quick today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2016 - 1 dont kill last pvp-ler from epic and chaos!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
