Pavement Decay

[Kelody 333]

So, apparently something on the wiki for years that no longer works is not a bug.

 

Pavement needs to decay over time. There are sections near me that have been abandoned so long even the fences have decayed, yet the 50-100 tiles of pavement are untouched. This is ugly. Roads to former deeds are confusing. This hinders tree growth and forest density which alters creature spawn habits. I spend hours removing these tiles and there are so many more hours needed just in my small section of Indy. Some players love to pave the world, which is their right, but when they quit, they leave behind huge stretches of forever pavement.

[Tallios 307]

Currently there is a random decay function (unless this is what is broken) which requires people to walk over a paved tile Or it will rot away.

 

i personally think that paved tiles should operate a lot like 90% of the other objects in wurm that can be repaired/improved and are damaged on use.  

 

Minuscule amounts for players, double that for a rider.  And higher amounts for hand carts, large carts, and wagons.   All of which should be based on weight.

 

Finally I would even go so far as to say animals and monsters "walking" on these tiles promotes decay as well.   So those deeds with no spirit guards will also see an increase in pavement destruction.

[Ayes 3,715]

No! Pavements should never decay at all. The only reason why some suggest this is that they are simply too lazy to remove unused payments themselves. Any tweaking of decay on so called unused pavements will only result in those roads less traveled to decay away at an accelerated rate.

 

I have removed a lot of left over pavements myself from random places and although it does involve some time this does not destroy any roads since it is selectively done. Anyone can do the same thing if they find some pavements unsightly. The solution has already long since been there. Bad idea this.

 

=Ayes=

[Ostentatio 1,970]

2 minutes ago, Ayes said:

No! Pavements should never decay at all. The only reason why some suggest this is that they are simply too lazy to remove unused payments themselves. Any tweaking of decay on so called unused pavements will only result in those roads less traveled to decay away at an accelerated rate.

 

I have removed a lot of left over pavements myself from random places and although it does involve some time this does not destroy any roads since it is selectively done. Anyone can do the same thing if they find some pavements unsightly. The solution has already long since been there. Bad idea this.

 

=Ayes=

 

If a road isn't used for months, I don't see the problem with it going away.

 

There's tons of land in Wurm that is covered in roads that haven't been used for aeons, or deeds that disbanded two years ago. This land reverting a bit back to nature is fine. It's very plausible for this to function in a way that doesn't impact roads that people actually use, so why not?

 

Seriously, if you want to call it "laziness" that I don't want to spend days of my life tearing up pavement nobody has used for 1-3 years, sure, you can call me "lazy", but I'd rather not have to clean up other people's messes any more than I already do.

[Ayes 3,715]

14 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

If a road isn't used for months, I don't see the problem with it going away.

 

The thing is that you have no way of knowing "it isn't used for months". But yea, you are lazy if you see unused pavements where deeds used to be and suggest that they automatically decay away because they irritate you and yet you won't take the time to remove them yourself. There may be a more accurate term for this but I am too lazy to take the time to search for and apply it in this situation.

 

I know in my area there are roads less traveled and off the beaten track a bit but I would not want to have to routinely run along them all every month or so to keep the pavement remaining there. Hey, maybe I am lazy too then? 

 

=Ayes=

[Arvid 64]

Hey come'on. In some cases lazyness is actually a virtue. Don't beat yourself up for being lazy.

[Tallios 307]

7 hours ago, Ayes said:

No! Pavements should never decay at all. The only reason why some suggest this is that they are simply too lazy to remove unused payments themselves. Any tweaking of decay on so called unused pavements will only result in those roads less traveled to decay away at an accelerated rate.

 

I have removed a lot of left over pavements myself from random places and although it does involve some time this does not destroy any roads since it is selectively done. Anyone can do the same thing if they find some pavements unsightly. The solution has already long since been there. Bad idea this.

 

=Ayes=

 

I would personally go with Slabs being more resistant to destruction, but bricks should take the next longest, and gravel, then packed dirt would be the quickest to decay.

[Kelody 333]

12 hours ago, Tallios said:

Currently there is a random decay function (unless this is what is broken) which requires people to walk over a paved tile Or it will rot away.

 

i personally think that paved tiles should operate a lot like 90% of the other objects in wurm that can be repaired/improved and are damaged on use.  

 

Minuscule amounts for players, double that for a rider.  And higher amounts for hand carts, large carts, and wagons.   All of which should be based on weight.

 

Finally I would even go so far as to say animals and monsters "walking" on these tiles promotes decay as well.   So those deeds with no spirit guards will also see an increase in pavement destruction.

 

Considering my post (linked in OP) about decay being bugged was marked wrong and locked, it seems decay is gone.

 

8 hours ago, Ayes said:

 

The thing is that you have no way of knowing "it isn't used for months". But yea, you are lazy if you see unused pavements where deeds used to be and suggest that they automatically decay away because they irritate you and yet you won't take the time to remove them yourself. There may be a more accurate term for this but I am too lazy to take the time to search for and apply it in this situation.

 

I know in my area there are roads less traveled and off the beaten track a bit but I would not want to have to routinely run along them all every month or so to keep the pavement remaining there. Hey, maybe I am lazy too then? 

 

=Ayes=

 

I'm pretty sure the game knows if a road hasn't been used for months.

[Evilreaper 262]

17 hours ago, Ayes said:

 

The thing is that you have no way of knowing "it isn't used for months". But yea, you are lazy if you see unused pavements where deeds used to be and suggest that they automatically decay away because they irritate you and yet you won't take the time to remove them yourself. There may be a more accurate term for this but I am too lazy to take the time to search for and apply it in this situation.

 

I know in my area there are roads less traveled and off the beaten track a bit but I would not want to have to routinely run along them all every month or so to keep the pavement remaining there. Hey, maybe I am lazy too then? 

 

=Ayes=

 

wurm knows all too well if these roads are traveled and stores faaaar too much tracking data for each tile already... if you dont believe me simply grind tracking up and you can see who has walked on a tile for the past 7 days!

 

+1 to OP

Edited May 26, 2016 by Evilreaper

[Etherdrifter 2,516]

A more innovative solution might be an  `overgrown' variant for each pavement that can be restored to normal using a sickle.

 

Overgrowth only occurs if there is a non-pavemenet tile next to the road (so roads are eaten away at the edges) and the tile hasn't been walked on in a certain amount of time.

 

The more expensive a road type the more resistant to overgrowth (abandoned gravel paths get eaten quickly, marble slabs take a long time to go).

 

The overgrown variant, when it takes another decay tick, vanishes.  This gives players a clear warning when a road is about to decay away and gives them a chance to easily maintain a useful but rarely travelled road.

[Tallios 307]

8 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

A more innovative solution might be an  `overgrown' variant for each pavement that can be restored to normal using a sickle.

 

Overgrowth only occurs if there is a non-pavemenet tile next to the road (so roads are eaten away at the edges) and the tile hasn't been walked on in a certain amount of time.

 

The more expensive a road type the more resistant to overgrowth (abandoned gravel paths get eaten quickly, marble slabs take a long time to go).

 

The overgrown variant, when it takes another decay tick, vanishes.  This gives players a clear warning when a road is about to decay away and gives them a chance to easily maintain a useful but rarely travelled road.

 

I would like this, and it would give visual evidence that a road is not being used or tended.  

 

I would just like to add that the growth should be a lot like how grass grows, and the more traffic it receives would "kill" the overgrowth

[Ayes 3,715]

Again I will state, any player offended by so called unused pavements has the ability to remove them. I don't go for these back to nature type suggestions where the desire is for landscapes to return to their natural state they were in before players transformed them. They were transformed once by paving and they can be transformed again by removing it. The only difference here is that some don't want to have to put any time into doing so. Plain as that.

 

So there is absolutely no need to program the game in such a way as to auto-delete roads that haven't been traveled upon for X number of days. Maybe someone will travel on it the next day eh? Remote roads are nice too as they usually lead to some more secluded area where one can then wonder about who settled there long before they discovered it, lured onwards by that long and winding road. Maybe it even leads to your door.

 

=Ayes=

[Lolabelle 597]

The issue with this I feel will affect the Highways. They are to be permanent structures really.   Pavement can be removed, so decay to me is not that big a deal. I do believe boats and abandoned buildings should decay a bit quicker.

[Ostentatio 1,970]

2 hours ago, Ayes said:

Again I will state, any player offended by so called unused pavements has the ability to remove them. I don't go for these back to nature type suggestions where the desire is for landscapes to return to their natural state they were in before players transformed them. They were transformed once by paving and they can be transformed again by removing it. The only difference here is that some don't want to have to put any time into doing so. Plain as that.

 

Again I will state, the thing I already stated. Plenty of users show up, wreck the landscape with huge pits, walls, giant paved areas, roads going to nowhere, etc. and it can take days just to reverse the changes made by one such person. This is not a very fun thing to do. On older servers and in crowded places, this gets especially obvious and obnoxious.

[Amadee 1,543]

-1

 

I don't see it as a problem, so don't see the need for a "solution."

 

And for the record, I still see pavements decaying periodically on little-used roads.  I repaired one just the other day in fact.  Just because a road is little-used doesn't mean someone didn't put it there for the express purpose of easing travel on the occasions when someone does chance to go that way.

 

I'm in the camp with those saying if you want it changed, change it.  This is a sand box after all, as we're reminded daily when other issues arise.

[lawurm 337]

53 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Plenty of users show up, wreck the landscape with huge pits, walls, giant paved areas, roads going to nowhere, etc.

 

Wait, we playing a terraforming game that is largely PVE and you don't like it?

I can only recommend moving or getting out the tools to do what the players before you did and play the game the way you like.

 

There is already a decay mechanic on paving and it works fine, in my opinion.

I do not want to log on to my deed and see my paving gone because i took a few months away from the game.

[Amadee 1,543]

3 hours ago, Ayes said:

Remote roads are nice too as they usually lead to some more secluded area where one can then wonder about who settled there long before they discovered it, lured onwards by that long and winding road.

 

Very true.  A few weeks ago I was out exploring a bit on Xan and noticed a side road winding down from the main road I was traveling on.  Feeling nosey adventurous that day, I followed it down to a long-abandoned & overgrown deed next to a tiny little lake in a hidden hollow.  It was absolutely charming.  I'd never have found that if the road had reverted back to nature. 

[MrGARY 12,421]

-1 last thing this game needs is even more chores, especially when you have rarer pavement like marble, or even worse, slate...

 

if you want the pavement gone then take the time with a fast shovel and remove the pavement

[Greyfox 427]

No, lots of people have put lots of time into building roads.  You don't like them then take the time to remove them.  It's far faster to remove pavement then it is to place it already.

 

[Ostentatio 1,970]

11 hours ago, MrGARY said:

-1 last thing this game needs is even more chores, especially when you have rarer pavement like marble, or even worse, slate...

 

if you want the pavement gone then take the time with a fast shovel and remove the pavement

 

Removing old pavement, dirtwalls, pits, etc. is a chore in itself. Even with a fast shovel, that takes quite a while.

[Eobersig 1,005]

16 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

Again I will state, the thing I already stated. Plenty of users show up, wreck the landscape with huge pits, walls, giant paved areas, roads going to nowhere, etc. and it can take days just to reverse the changes made by one such person. This is not a very fun thing to do. On older servers and in crowded places, this gets especially obvious and obnoxious.

 

I'm with Osten here. In Wurm it's very easy, esp. for a developed character, to "ruin" large amounts of server space. It takes far, far more time for another developed character to remove that damage - and in some cases it's even impossible. And it's certainly impossible for a new character to do, due to skill and tool requirements.

 

The result of this is large spaces where nobody lives while the same space cannot get resettled again by another (new) player.

[Kelody 333]

14 hours ago, Greyfox said:

No, lots of people have put lots of time into building roads.  You don't like them then take the time to remove them.  It's far faster to remove pavement then it is to place it already.

 

 

This isn't about roads that get used occasionally going away (though needing maintenance is more wurm style). This is about former deeds with huge patches of paved areas staying forever.

[Cecci 1,609]

-1 It clearly says on front page of site that this is a sandbox game that YOU can, among other thinhs, spend time doing this::

Quote

Terraforming – make your permanent mark on the landscape by modifying the terrain as you see fit.

 

[Odynn 2,248]

Quote

[22:43:40] You start to remove the stones from the paved dirt.
[22:43:42] After you finish destroying pavement you will start destroying pavement again.
[22:43:44] After you finish destroying pavement you will start destroying pavement again.
[22:43:47] After you finish destroying pavement you will start destroying pavement again.
[22:43:49] After you finish destroying pavement you will start destroying pavement again.
[22:43:50] After you finish destroying pavement you will start destroying pavement again.
[22:43:53] The ground is no longer paved with stones.
[22:43:53] You start to remove the stones from the paved dirt.

 

Taking the matter in your own hands (with or without GM permission depending on the situation) is a pita. There are shitloads of roads leading to nowhere, terraforming being unused and whatnot.

 

So yes, changing the world is fine, but having a way for said world to repair itself is needed, smoothing slopes, removing pavment, maybe tied to trees spreading as it's actually happening in the real world.

 

Nothing is supposed to stay forever in wurm... except roads and loom so far. +1 Then.

[Ayes 3,715]

23 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Again I will state, the thing I already stated....

 

The good thing about these forums is that if you are in a state to restate statements with additional modifications or previously unstated thoughts, then no matter which state you reside in or even if not in a state, then as stated these altered states may influence those further statements. So if again you wish to further state thoughts within your current state of mind, I would not state that you should not do so. Simply stated then, the more statements made of pertinence within current topics will then influence others statements and perhaps encourage them to state those further thoughts, stated previously or not. Remember too that all states are not statements and then perhaps are better left unstated.

 

=Ayes=