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zilbar

Zilbar (The Unknown Recovered)

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I remember he joined jenn kellon on chaos about a year backed. Stayed 2-3 days. Stole a bunch of stuff. Then left. Wouldnt trust this guy for a second haha.

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I came here to say Respect for TC and things you do (at least sometimes :) ) - talking about the glimmer axe you just replaced for Tuga ofc.  As for Zilbar, his app was refused and he will not be welcome on chaos as one of us nor he will be looked at as a honorable enemy.

Edited by bangzuvelis
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Yes, I was a bit lost still by their action, trying to find the right words in my mind. Still a bit stunned...

Many thanks for The Cruzaders for replacing my huge axe with a new +90ql glimmer huge axe, in a situation they had nothing to do with, and me even belonging to a different kingdom on Chaos (JK).

They said they were aware of it and they decided to replace it whit out making a difference the kingdom that I belong to there.

And, they did :s lol

Many thanks to all the leaders and members of the The Cruzaders kingdom for providing it, I really appreciate it :D

Love my new axe hehe

 

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Also would like to add that even with The WURM team not being able to do something for me, saying that no matter the money he got it from, it was a legit bought....

AND I could not call him a thief cause it wasnt really a theft....

Im glad we have a small but good and awsome community (with a few exceptions, points at Zilbar and Hashi) that helps each other in many situations just expressing the goodness in mankind.

Yea, the Gms could not help me in this game, but a Chaos kingdom did.

Thanks again @Rudie and The Cruzaders.

 

Edited by Tuga
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We were in a position to help and I made the decision to gift you a new axe. Take care of it :) It has the bloodstains of its enemies.

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2 minutes ago, Tuga said:

Also would like to add that even with The WURM team not being able to do something for me, saying that no matter the money he got it from, it was a legit bought....

AND I could not call him a thief cause it wasnt really a theft....

Im glad we have a small but good and awsome community (with a few exceptions, points at Zilbar and Hashi) that helps each other in many situations just expressing the goodness in mankind.

Yea, the Gms could not help me in this game, but a Chaos kingdom did.

Thanks again The Cruzaders.

 

They need to ban people who do things like this ultimately there is to much leniency in this game. Stealing shouldn't be permitted on freedom.

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10 minutes ago, Tuga said:

 

Thanks again @Rudie and The Cruzaders.

 

CruZaders good guys I swear !

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Without knowing the full stories it's hard to determine how much fault there ought to be for all parties involved, this includes the claiming victims.

 

I have seen and heard of many worst cases in game and on these forms for years on related stuff and again worst then what is stated here.

 

Why is it when issues like this or similar are discovered the entire community doesn't cause an uproar towards the game to create some sort of fix for it? But instead mud slinging starts by players who have probably done something questionable in their past or even present. I guess I have heard and seen many suggestions and crys about secure storage but merchants have become what players have resorted to because of the lack of another option.

Edited by Spook

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Many if not most valuables with the exception of fishing rods and saddles and  other large items easily fit in a Large Magical Chest. They are lockable storage with zero decay. You can set permissions to be accesible by specific people and cannot be loaded by anyone but the owner, even with permissions and without a lock.

 

If the price tag is too much for you, make an alt, prem it once for ten silver and get about 9 silver back, then casually stick it in a mine for a months. There, bam. Permanent storage for one silver.

 

I'm sorry, but saying people use unsecure merchants as storage because is their only option which is not their intended purpose is not only an outright lie but is also wrong. There are tons of containers in the game to safely store your valuables.  The fact that people use merchants for what they are obviously not intended for is not a design flaw, its player stupidity.

 

You should do your research before posting.

Edited by Angelklaine
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Tugs never blamed the merchant or game mechanics. In fact he clearly stated it was his mistake. What he asked for was that Zil return the items that were taken as a result of that mistake.

 

We all know loot rules in this game and we know that if you CAN take it then you are legally allowed to do so. This does not mean that it is right, fair or friendly to do so.

 

I have looted unsecured items that I thought were abandoned only to find out later that the owner was active and missed them. It hurt to give them back but the friendship that resulted out of the act is worth way more than the silver. And I suspect the enmity that is developing as a result of Zil's actions is going to be way worse than the loss of profit here.

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But what makes it wrong at the end of the day of nothing was done wrong and an item was bought. 

 

And in a way tuga did kinda complain about the merchant by claiming it to be a personal merchant. The merchant is still owned by him but an item was bought off of it. Then tuga first comments were calling the buyer a thief, while clearly he was not. The issue is with your last paragraph about it being hard to give something back. I am willing to bet you your instances did not end up with a player calling you out as a thief in public and you giving back items and becoming best friends. And are you guaranteed to become friends. Did the owner ask how much he could possibly pay to obtain it back perhaps a 50% market value or any offer whatsoever? These are all questions no one knows about but yet so many comments are made, mostly by the same old names I have seen vocally for a few years. I could point out someone's reputation on this thread as a reseller has also been very questionable at times but again does it really make it wrong. 

 

That is the reason why I come full circle to asking about why the owner choose a merchant over what appears there are other options for large secure item storage. 

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Merchant will mail you your items in the event of absence and cannot be destroyed.

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I am not familiar with the whole case, nor am I saying Tuga was dumb. I am not criticizing the facts. Thats not what I meant. 

 

I was responding to Spook's comment that there is a problem the staff should fix when indeed that is not the case.

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18 minutes ago, Aeryck said:

Merchant will mail you your items in the event of absence and cannot be destroyed.

 

An alt cannot be destroyed and never goes away. Better storage option imo.

 

Even a merchant with exhorbitant prices would deter cases like this. I really dont know why people use cheap prices in a merchant they own and then complain when it gets bought off.

 

Its like me throwing my rare axe at a mob and walking off, and then complaining and making a fuss when someone else took it  Being careless should not translate to accusations of theft. You and you alone are responsible for securing your belongings. Theft is reserved for those who abuse your trust in order to profit from it.

 

Someone buying stuff off a merchant = not theft. I mean, jeeze, its the complete opposite of a theft. You are BUYING the damn thing!

 

Dont get me wrong, I understand the trust issue and how the actions of this person amount to being a scummy bastard, but this would not had happened if the items were stored in an appropiate location. Hindsight is always 20/20, of course.

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7 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

I am not familiar with the whole case, nor am I saying Tuga was dumb. I am not criticizing the facts. Thats not what I meant. 

 

I was responding to Spook's comment that there is a problem the staff should fix when indeed that is not the case.

It's still abusing his property, it's not like he had the idea to gift that weapon/etc to first person walking trough the gates, when he's not around.:mellow:

If the person wasn't a noob - NOOB... literally day 1.. trying the game.. if you know what you're doing and you do that.. what are you?

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2 hours ago, Finnn said:

It's still abusing his property, it's not like he had the idea to gift that weapon/etc to first person walking trough the gates, when he's not around.:mellow:

If the person wasn't a noob - NOOB... literally day 1.. trying the game.. if you know what you're doing and you do that.. what are you?

Someome who abused someone elses trust. Yes. I am not arguing that.

 

It happens all the time, in every mmo out there. People fatfinger 10g instead of 100g. Then someone looking for a bargain and scoops it from the AH. You slap yourself in the head and call yourself stupid, and that is that. You dont go out on a manhunt for the person who stole from you.

 

The only difference here is this person was able to act due to permissions granted to him. So yes, he is scummy. Thats not and never have been up for dispute.

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Not saying this is exactly the same situation but if you see a cheap item on a merchant, think twice before buying it people, you might be called a thief. In fact, dont buy any items from merchants at all because it might not be the intended price. Let storage npcs be storage npcs.

 

There is no trust or special permissions involved (no village, alliance or personal) between Zilbar and Tuga and Tuga is clearly not claiming that to be the case. He got into the deed, he bought an item from the merchant. The merchants are not meant to be infinite storage units, but you can use them. Just choose all your items and make it maximum gold before putting it, problem solved. You make a mistake, you lose something from that mistake, you publicly shame another person to get your item back that way, making that person pay for your mistake, how convenient.

 

I guess it would be relevant to mention that Zilbar is getting a lot of messages from many people. They are trying to harass him into giving the item back, making statements about his real life based on his ingame action, trying to get his father involved etc. etc. 

 

Of course the noble thing to do would be returning the item or not buying it in the first place and informing the person but does not doing the noble thing to do give the other people the right to shame, harrass and do everything in order to get back what is lost? 

 

When something like this (setting wrong permissions, wrong price on merchant etc.) happens, does it always become a huge issue like this and does the person get harrassed to no end like Zilbar is? 

 

In a game where so many people enjoy being opportunists about many aspects of the game, it just makes no sense to me that when someone buys an item very very cheap from a merchant (4s), people feel like they have the right to harrass that person to no end, able to involve everything as necessary to the end goal.

 

Obviously there are people in this game who are going around deeds looking for disbanding deeds, keeping track of their progress and looking for openings as well, so keep your things secure and put your merchant prices properly and keep paying your upkeeps regularly people. It is going to help more than going after one person fanatically like this.

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3 hours ago, Simyaci said:

Not saying this is exactly the same situation but if you see a cheap item on a merchant, think twice before buying it people, you might be called a thief. In fact, dont buy any items from merchants at all because it might not be the intended price. Let storage npcs be storage npcs.

 

There is no trust or special permissions involved (no village, alliance or personal) between Zilbar and Tuga and Tuga is clearly not claiming that to be the case. He got into the deed, he bought an item from the merchant. The merchants are not meant to be infinite storage units, but you can use them. Just choose all your items and make it maximum gold before putting it, problem solved. You make a mistake, you lose something from that mistake, you publicly shame another person to get your item back that way, making that person pay for your mistake, how convenient.

 

I guess it would be relevant to mention that Zilbar is getting a lot of messages from many people. They are trying to harass him into giving the item back, making statements about his real life based on his ingame action, trying to get his father involved etc. etc. 

 

Of course the noble thing to do would be returning the item or not buying it in the first place and informing the person but does not doing the noble thing to do give the other people the right to shame, harrass and do everything in order to get back what is lost? 

 

When something like this (setting wrong permissions, wrong price on merchant etc.) happens, does it always become a huge issue like this and does the person get harrassed to no end like Zilbar is? 

 

In a game where so many people enjoy being opportunists about many aspects of the game, it just makes no sense to me that when someone buys an item very very cheap from a merchant (4s), people feel like they have the right to harrass that person to no end, able to involve everything as necessary to the end goal.

 

Obviously there are people in this game who are going around deeds looking for disbanding deeds, keeping track of their progress and looking for openings as well, so keep your things secure and put your merchant prices properly and keep paying your upkeeps regularly people. It is going to help more than going after one person fanatically like this.

steal from me once, shame on me

steal from me twice, shame on you.

 

guy is a chronic thief, he shouldn't expect respect or trust towards him, you shouldn't expect respect or trust towards him either. The out of game harassment isn't cool, i'll agree on that, and a few people have been permabanned in the past for harassing people.

 

But regardless, if you prove to be malicious time and time again people are going to expect you to act maliciously and with that being said he will get no sympathy from me and he should return the items.

Edited by Propheteer
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5 hours ago, Simyaci said:

Not saying this is exactly the same situation but if you see a cheap item on a merchant, think twice before buying it people, you might be called a thief. In fact, dont buy any items from merchants at all because it might not be the intended price. Let storage npcs be storage npcs.

 

There is no trust or special permissions involved (no village, alliance or personal) between Zilbar and Tuga and Tuga is clearly not claiming that to be the case. He got into the deed, he bought an item from the merchant. The merchants are not meant to be infinite storage units, but you can use them. Just choose all your items and make it maximum gold before putting it, problem solved. You make a mistake, you lose something from that mistake, you publicly shame another person to get your item back that way, making that person pay for your mistake, how convenient.

 

I guess it would be relevant to mention that Zilbar is getting a lot of messages from many people. They are trying to harass him into giving the item back, making statements about his real life based on his ingame action, trying to get his father involved etc. etc. 

 

Of course the noble thing to do would be returning the item or not buying it in the first place and informing the person but does not doing the noble thing to do give the other people the right to shame, harrass and do everything in order to get back what is lost? 

 

When something like this (setting wrong permissions, wrong price on merchant etc.) happens, does it always become a huge issue like this and does the person get harrassed to no end like Zilbar is? 

 

In a game where so many people enjoy being opportunists about many aspects of the game, it just makes no sense to me that when someone buys an item very very cheap from a merchant (4s), people feel like they have the right to harrass that person to no end, able to involve everything as necessary to the end goal.

 

Obviously there are people in this game who are going around deeds looking for disbanding deeds, keeping track of their progress and looking for openings as well, so keep your things secure and put your merchant prices properly and keep paying your upkeeps regularly people. It is going to help more than going after one person fanatically like this.

I agree with part of what you are saying. I actually used to check out Inde's freedom market and some Xanadu markets for items with good prices. I got a seryll coif from xanadu for 1s and some tools for 20-30c each, but that's not an extraordinary cheap deal, it was only a good find. However I did find once a rare tool in FM for 8c and it was clear to me that it was priced wrong by the merchant owner, so i did the right thing and contacted him. Anyone that played for at least a couple of months and looked at the trade chat once in a while should be able to know the ballpark prices for most items, at least knowing that rare moonmetal items are not 20c. A PC in trade would have given him the answer pretty fast, I'm also pretty sure Tuga contacted him to clear everything up before making the forum post.

 

I love to do "advanced foraging" in wurm, traveling around the map looking for abandoned places or climbing a cliff for a pile of items half way, hoping it's an inventory from a long dead player that he didn't care to recover, and not a bunch of foraged stuff. I found tools, armour, rares, coins, which makes exploring in wurm so much nicer and exciting. But I would hope that doing that does not put me in the same 'box' with Zilbar, I don't look around for people's mistakes and exploit them, I don't take horse gear off horses even if they are in the wild.. I would not want everyone to start fearing explorers and lock their doors. There are so many beautiful deeds out there that are completely fenced because of this fear, which is a shame..

 

It's not what you do when people are looking, that counts, it's what you do when you think nobody is watching you, that will show your true nature..

Edited by faty
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I never read the 2nd log in that post, I have no clue what to look for, and it's quite long to fish for blaming facts<_<

If zilbar have found a dead horse and decided to keep the gear... it was his right~, owner's fault for not caring for the animal, if the animal was alive and he looted it... :unsure: Not cool...

He had 2 choices looking for the owner or selling them.. and I can barely point fingers or blame him for either if the horse was dead - it's free loot:wacko:, it's how the game works. Depending on your player's wealth and progress everyone makes their own choice.

Only thing I saw with niki was the part where zil says he got the shoes from niki, small lie.. if someone was looking for the shoes, and got to blaming niki for stealing, etc.. I guess we solved that now..

*is there anything interesting in 2nd log/I have no idea what to look for

 

ONLY way to protect gear on a horse is to put some ~'immortality'(not 100% just closest thing) by caring for the horse, branding it and hitching it to a cart/wagon, manage it's permissions and pray that some future update wont tickle any of that settings while you're offline or away...

*unsure if permissions even include 'leading' action(I'd imagine anyone could find your horse in the wild if you dc/crash/etc.. and lead it to a hungry animal or lava tile.. and shake your favorite horse from it's valuables). Anyone could still rob your HellHorse anywhere on/off deed.. by just standing near it.. horse attacks the player and suicides on AoSp casts, as player just manages health..<_<, making it dumb to put just about any gear on a hh horse when random players could reach it.

 

22 minutes ago, faty said:

It's not what you do when people are looking, that counts, it's what you do when you think nobody is watching you, that will show your true nature..

mhm

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Sometimes i just wish i was a GM but who know what else would've happend if i was..

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11 hours ago, Finnn said:

I never read the 2nd log in that post, I have no clue what to look for, and it's quite long to fish for blaming facts<_<

If zilbar have found a dead horse and decided to keep the gear... it was his right~, owner's fault for not caring for the animal, if the animal was alive and he looted it... :unsure: Not cool...

He had 2 choices looking for the owner or selling them.. and I can barely point fingers or blame him for either if the horse was dead - it's free loot:wacko:, it's how the game works. Depending on your player's wealth and progress everyone makes their own choice.

Only thing I saw with niki was the part where zil says he got the shoes from niki, small lie.. if someone was looking for the shoes, and got to blaming niki for stealing, etc.. I guess we solved that now..

*is there anything interesting in 2nd log/I have no idea what to look for

 

ONLY way to protect gear on a horse is to put some ~'immortality'(not 100% just closest thing) by caring for the horse, branding it and hitching it to a cart/wagon, manage it's permissions and pray that some future update wont tickle any of that settings while you're offline or away...

*unsure if permissions even include 'leading' action(I'd imagine anyone could find your horse in the wild if you dc/crash/etc.. and lead it to a hungry animal or lava tile.. and shake your favorite horse from it's valuables). Anyone could still rob your HellHorse anywhere on/off deed.. by just standing near it.. horse attacks the player and suicides on AoSp casts, as player just manages health..<_<, making it dumb to put just about any gear on a hh horse when random players could reach it.

 

mhm

Cmon Finn.. All of that happened in 2013-2014, Xor doesn't even play anymore. This was a necro because Zilbar stole again, he originally stole using broken permissions back in 2014.  Being a sleazy person he is, he randomly decided to blame me because I sold a lot of stuff back then on the forums. I never met Xor or Zilbar and I never went to pristine (couldn't even get there yet server was locked off.) He simply used me a scapegoat. I told Xor it wasn't me, but it's very hard to get out of a accusation once it's laid out. The fact that he wasn't banned just for doing that and the GMs still allow him to go around and do terrible things is extremely troublesome.

 

So this is why we have name and shame, if people wish to defend toxic players such as Zilbar that's your right but it'll make you less popular in the long term. 

 

I do agree that horses still need a permission system, locked saddle bags would probably sort that out though. Brand doesn't do much, just lets you lead horses off of people's deeds.

Edited by Niki
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i don't see the problem merchants are meant to sell things why would you put it on one if it wasn't for sale 

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9 hours ago, Niki said:

Cmon Finn.. All of that happened in 2013-2014, Xor doesn't even play anymore. This was a necro because Zilbar stole again, he originally stole using broken permissions back in 2014.  Being a sleazy person he is, he randomly decided to blame me because I sold a lot of stuff back then on the forums. I never met Xor or Zilbar and I never went to pristine (couldn't even get there yet server was locked off.) He simply used me a scapegoat. I told Xor it wasn't me, but it's very hard to get out of a accusation once it's laid out. The fact that he wasn't banned just for doing that and the GMs still allow him to go around and do terrible things is extremely troublesome.

 

So this is why we have name and shame, if people wish to defend toxic players such as Zilbar that's your right but it'll make you less popular in the long term. 

 

I do agree that horses still need a permission system, locked saddle bags would probably sort that out though. Brand doesn't do much, just lets you lead horses off of people's deeds.


You where shamed, because of a lie, and still think player run Name and Shame threads are justified?  You think defending someone just because they are placed in a Name and Shame  should make someone unpopular?  You should know from experience that not everyone who ends up being shamed should be there.

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