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Retrograde

PvP changes testing Round 1

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This will be for testing of the changes to certain PvP mechanics, other rounds are planned with more changes, but will come later

 

Currently being tested:

  • Archery penalty removed from helms, changed archery from a flat fail % to added difficulty depending on armour penalty
  • Archery keybinds -SHOOT, QUICK_SHOT, SHOOT_FACE, SHOOT_TORSO, SHOOT_LEFTARM, SHOOT_RIGHTARM, SHOOT_LEGS,
  • Combat tab now shows offensive, karma and healing spells (+ creature targeted dispel) Meditation messages are yet to come.
  • Throw has been removed from valrei mobs, uniques will still throw.
  • Shield of the Gone has been reduced to a 30% Damage reduction

Gm's will be available over the weekend to provide certain support when necessary.

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SOTG doesn't need to be tested because it can be looked at by theory.

 

SoTG: perm 60% damage reduction (no negatives)

 

Hate: 15 minutes? of 50% damage bonus per 24 hours

 

Mag bonus: perm (favor permitted) 25% damage bonus (but can just be stacked with sotg anyway)

 

pls devs, the math and numbers

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26 minutes ago, MetalDragon said:

SOTG doesn't need to be tested because it can be looked at by theory.

 

SoTG: perm 60% damage reduction (no negatives)

 

Hate: 15 minutes? of 50% damage bonus per 24 hours

 

Mag bonus: perm (favor permitted) 25% damage bonus (but can just be stacked with sotg anyway)

 

pls devs, the math and numbers

 

I would assume the 30% was already decided "by theory" and the testing is to assure that by hitting someone with SotG, they properly take 30% less damage as opposed to fountaining deer bladders out of their eyeballs or something.  There are many damage types, and the possibility for bugs is always there - people complain about how stuff isn't tested then released, so yes, IT SHOULD BE TESTED JA?

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60% dr would be a buff what ya talkin about

 

also will this be on the normal test server or a different one?

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Hope all insanity followers get 1 time transfer to other path like we were promised.

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While Shield of the Going gets debated, I've pushed a new test client up that uses the old launcher. It has the archery key binds in the settings menu.

 

While we do have the proper keybindings in the new launcher (Thank you Budda!) - That one isn't ready for testing yet, so back to the old launcher!

 

If for any reason the test server goes down or does anything strange this weekend, please feel free to forum PM me or email me at keenan@wurmonline.com.

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lets see, so we can take our leather caps out of our leather sets, k thats all we need to know from this.

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30% still to high for sotg when it stacks with valrei items plus moonmetal plate sets.

Plus u also need to work on other med paths so that something can match path of Insanity.

Or this patch will be a quick fix and before long we have the same problem all over again.

Edited by Erinyesthegreat

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30% still to high for sotg when it stacks with valrei items plus moonmetal plate sets.

 

Then your problem is with armor DR, not SoTG.  Try it.  Test it.  That's what this weekend is for.

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Imagining a guy in a great helm firing a bow easily is kind of funny. At least give an archery penalty for helms covering the face

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30% is ok need to do some archery testing still, this is a good bandaid but all the other paths need to be looked at in the long run.

 

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needs a bigger nerf or removal entirely. if it's still large enough to be a requirement, then it's still a problem. the same goes for any meditation path.

 

but hey i haven't been right about anything ever, despite complaining about most of the stuff that has resulted in the majority of the pvp population quitting

Edited by Propheteer
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Really hope path of hate gets buffed, others are ok but hate's level 11 ability is far inferior to other paths. Can remove the timed dmg increase ability (dont care) but level 11 ability should be more useful.

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so you got a decent of replies here how many actually tested it out I dont know but whats the word on this ? We going to see a new challenge or we going to see these on live server whats the deal ?

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It's way too late to change SOTG anyway, this needed to be changed yeeaarss ago. Anyone who is a decent pvper has SOTG, its a requirement tbh, tomes made it a bit more even but at that you have to spend money or get extremely lucky to have one.

 

This is a legitimate question I'm not trying to troll, where do you get your numbers and research from? Do you actually speak with certain people who are active in pvp? I just feel like sometimes Dev's grab a knob and set it to a number and say that'll do.

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1 hour ago, Holar said:

It's way too late to change SOTG anyway, this needed to be changed yeeaarss ago. Anyone who is a decent pvper has SOTG, its a requirement tbh, tomes made it a bit more even but at that you have to spend money or get extremely lucky to have one.

 

This is a legitimate question I'm not trying to troll, where do you get your numbers and research from? Do you actually speak with certain people who are active in pvp? I just feel like sometimes Dev's grab a knob and set it to a number and say that'll do.

Retrograde about 3 months ago spoke to every kingdom / group from pvp server - epic / chaos, and gathered info this is the first sign of any change we are seeing since then. How they came up with 30% is beyond me but yeah. 

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2 hours ago, Holar said:

It's way too late to change SOTG anyway, this needed to be changed yeeaarss ago. Anyone who is a decent pvper has SOTG, its a requirement tbh, tomes made it a bit more even but at that you have to spend money or get extremely lucky to have one.

 

This is a legitimate question I'm not trying to troll, where do you get your numbers and research from? Do you actually speak with certain people who are active in pvp? I just feel like sometimes Dev's grab a knob and set it to a number and say that'll do.

 

i remember when it was first added

 

everyone said it was the MOST OP thing they had ever seen, and once people started getting it, the same people who got it stopped complaining :^

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  • Archery penalty removed from helms, changed archery from a flat fail % to added difficulty depending on armour penalty

I don't really know why there's an insistence on having an armor penalty in the first place. If this is based on PvP, as the title of this thread suggests, then no penalty would be ideal. The original rationale for this, if I remember correctly, was that it'd cause people to move away from plate and saturate the PvP community with other armor types. That simply is not how it works, since the raw defense provided by plate is infinitely better than dealing with lesser armors being more able to use archery. People just take their armor off to negate the penalty and still will in the event that any noticeable difficulty is added. I'm not entirely sure what this change entails to overall archery success/fail rates, but it's almost pointless to wear plate and use archery now, even with 99 archery.

Insanity will need to be revamped if SotG is dropped to 30% because a 30% DR, even if permanent, is relatively equivalent to Path of Hate's bonus and Path of Power's bonus, while those two paths offer way, way more in terms of overall utility. Insanity is a one-trick pony. If it's going to be anything other than a niche/gimmick path, then nerfing SotG will need to be offset with utility in other areas.

The top accounts will still overshadow the others if trading blow-by-blow, and it's an obnoxious red herring when we're addressing the question of balance in PvP. Remember that we've had deadly hard irritates on kings and scale back in the day. That's far, far worse than what we have now, and it wasn't a panacea for PvP issues. If there's a desire to create more PvP, then the fundamental problems with PvP (most of which I addressed in my kingdom PM) need to be addressed. Tweaking a few numbers will not make people any more or less likely to devote hours of their life for a tiny chance at actually meeting one of the other 10 people online at the time for a fight.

I have SotG but I don't have much attachment to it. I'll switch to Hate like everyone else if it gets changed and be on my merry way. I just think that there's an undue amount of emphasis being placed on the change when it won't noticeably impact the way that PvP is conducted.

Edited by Aflacduck
dutchmen

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30% dmg reduction is still better than all other paths.

 

Not that i agree with this change in its current state.. Ill speculate more on it later.

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It's better then the other paths yes, but is completely necessary no. To play around with the reductions a bit I hit a fellow kingdom mate, aggressive with rare glimmer medium maul did ~10% to him, he has low 40s body strength and SoTG and was wearing rare seryll. Then I hit another kingdom mate high 50s body strength no sotg wearing glimmer plate, and I did about ~11% to him. We did a bit fighting and testing as well I am ~55 body strength SoTG and I was getting hit for ~20% by hate bonus with huge axe and I was wearing scale/seryll. So I do think some other paths are more viable now, and people can still achieve a decent reduction via valrei tomes. Is this the perfect solution no, but it's just a temporary band aid. With Rolf being the only full time developer at the moment things will slow drastically (yes even more then it already is) so for the mean time I don't think this change was bad, as long as the devs keep true to their words and indeed to keep working on the complete overhaul. 

 

 

TLDR : someone with high 50s body stringent can rank as much as someone with low 40s and sotg. 

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8 hours ago, Egard said:

It's better then the other paths yes, but is completely necessary no. To play around with the reductions a bit I hit a fellow kingdom mate, aggressive with rare glimmer medium maul did ~10% to him, he has low 40s body strength and SoTG and was wearing rare seryll. Then I hit another kingdom mate high 50s body strength no sotg wearing glimmer plate, and I did about ~11% to him. We did a bit fighting and testing as well I am ~55 body strength SoTG and I was getting hit for ~20% by hate bonus with huge axe and I was wearing scale/seryll. So I do think some other paths are more viable now, and people can still achieve a decent reduction via valrei tomes. Is this the perfect solution no, but it's just a temporary band aid. With Rolf being the only full time developer at the moment things will slow drastically (yes even more then it already is) so for the mean time I don't think this change was bad, as long as the devs keep true to their words and indeed to keep working on the complete overhaul. 

 

 

TLDR : someone with high 50s body stringent can rank as much as someone with low 40s and sotg. 

 

Well that doesn't sound horrible then, i have yet the time to do any testing and am mainly thinking of all the cons to this nerf, I feel in a way that its good because now a 50/60 BS account can actually stack up against an SOTG account. So for that i do like the reduction as i have always felt there was toooo much of a gap and the fact that it was Insanity was the ONLY path to choose prior to this... BUT i didnt think they were going to do this nerf without also nerfing some of the real problems which is the crit dmg from a huge axe and huge axe dmg without the crit even... The swing timer for it is actually decently fast for as much dmg as it currently does... Along with that true strike with a huge axe, with the nerf to SOTG that still means strong non sotg accounts will still go down in 2 - 3 hits... I thought Retrograde said there would be NO NERF to SOTG without something happening to these other 2 items listed above. 

 

With that said thank you for the percentages as it helps to paint the picture a bit, and with those yes i can see other paths now being viable which is what it should have always been the case... I however feel that instead of nerfing SOTG they should have addressed it in a way that gave Instanity a progressive SOTG with using a few other levels allowing a newb to get lets say 15% reducing in 3 months or so whatever it is to get to lvl 7... This was one of the MOST talked about inabilities is how long it took to get to lvl 11... Instead now i feel the devs will have to work even more trying to figure out what is going to be OP next... Can you tell me have you done any tests with a sotg vs a Champ now? I am interested in seeing how different that is... Is it as bad as a non sotg going up against a 50%DR sotg account, or is it somewhat feasible?

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