Posted February 29, 2016 Why would you disable something on one pvp server because people feared it might be abused etc, but then enable it on another pvp server where it can be abused just as easily? 4 minutes ago, Keenan said: If you'd like, I can design an identity-tracking voting system and see if we want to use it going forward? This way there's no chance of duplicate votes? Just a thought. Yes please, this would be gr8 to have for future polls Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 waiting for this to hit WU so i can just delete it from my servers 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 ive never liked so many roman posts until this thread 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, Alexgopen said: ive never liked so many roman posts until this thread Its because big ego kid is gone, rest of Rome is cute 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 3 hours ago, Slickshot said: Opinion. Not fact. Can we stop with propaganda and slights at every turn? This behavior as of late is childish, and unbecoming. I believe most of us [community] are grown adults who can, indeed, act with some dignity, responsibility, and respect. Fact: https://www.google.ca/#q=what+is+irc+for Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is an application layer protocol that facilitates communication in the form of text. The chat process works on a client/server networking model. IRC clients are computer programs that a user can install on their system. Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is an application layer protocol that facilitates communication in the form of text. The chat process works on a client/server networking model. IRC clients are computer programs that a user can install on their system. These clients communicate with chat servers to transfer messages to other clients. IRC is mainly designed for group communication in discussion forums, called channels, but also allows one-on-one communication via private messages as well as chat and data transfer, including file sharing. ^IRC Definition, I knew i wasn't far off. The behavior of the so called "Test team" or "Test GM's" is childish, The community is acting exactly how it should be. ask for testing, you go in for a test and get refused. Really what kind of reaction are you expecting okay good bye have a nice day? Hell no, This isn't some manga, This is real people wanting to help the community but only end up getting treated like dirt, Ignored and left to decay. You ever wonder how the community got like this? Its the community is mirroring its staff team, Practically every community does it. Prime examples include eGo, GFL, HG, PF, Wyvern, CatalystGaming and many more. Go play any of those servers, Observe how the admins act and you will see the community act accordingly. For example, If you went to eGo and kissed one of the admins ###'s, You get treated like a god and can do what you like. Thats how eGo works. Go on GFL, You can go spout the N word and basically say the most offensive things imaginable and be praised by the community and admins. Go play HG and obey the rules and dont kiss ###, You may end up as an admin if you behave and report abusive behavior, staff or not. And the list just goes on and on. Dont be mistaken tho, There are communities complete opposite of its staff, But typically those are just communities that have the owner being the leader and just chose people he or she liked rather than there skills as a admin or moderator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) I play on the PVP servers and I can see how it might be used to grief but from what i'm understanding Theres a height limit on the tiles it can be used - 20 slope I think IT can't be used outside of kingdom influence- how you going to grief an enemy and you can only remove tiles that have been placed by transformation liquids not ones that were created by the server? I think its q decently thought through system. I however don't agree with putting it on epic and not chaos, if it's bad for chaos (not saying it is or isn't) then its deffinetely bad for epic?? also another gripe of how this information was delivered, you just said there live and all the information I've gathered has been from multiple posts, we need detailed clarification of new features and mechanics in the news or a seperate post, or hell even make a wiki page with detailed facts and mechanics from the devs who made. I'm a wiki editor and would have no problem creating and adding new pages to the wiki if a dev sent me the specific mechanics and facts on a new feature before it was released so the player base might have a reference the day of the new features release. Edited February 29, 2016 by thekraken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, akaedis said: Fact: https://www.google.ca/#q=what+is+irc+for Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is an application layer protocol that facilitates communication in the form of text. The chat process works on a client/server networking model. IRC clients are computer programs that a user can install on their system. Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is an application layer protocol that facilitates communication in the form of text. The chat process works on a client/server networking model. IRC clients are computer programs that a user can install on their system. These clients communicate with chat servers to transfer messages to other clients. IRC is mainly designed for group communication in discussion forums, called channels, but also allows one-on-one communication via private messages as well as chat and data transfer, including file sharing. ^IRC Definition, I knew i wasn't far off. The behavior of the so called "Test team" or "Test GM's" is childish, The community is acting exactly how it should be. ask for testing, you go in for a test and get refused. Really what kind of reaction are you expecting okay good bye have a nice day? Hell no, This isn't some manga, This is real people wanting to help the community but only end up getting treated like dirt, Ignored and left to decay. You ever wonder how the community got like this? Its the community is mirroring its staff team, Practically every community does it. Prime examples include eGo, GFL, HG, PF, Wyvern, CatalystGaming and many more. Go play any of those servers, Observe how the admins act and you will see the community act accordingly. For example, If you went to eGo and kissed one of the admins ###'s, You get treated like a god and can do what you like. Thats how eGo works. Go on GFL, You can go spout the N word and basically say the most offensive things imaginable and be praised by the community and admins. Go play HG and obey the rules and dont kiss ###, You may end up as an admin if you behave and report abusive behavior, staff or not. And the list just goes on and on. Dont be mistaken tho, There are communities complete opposite of its staff, But typically those are just communities that have the owner being the leader and just chose people he or she liked rather than there skills as a admin or moderator. I've given this away in the past, but here you go! www.twitter.com/xorith - DM me! IRC - PM me! I'm Keenan on there keenan@wurmonline.com - Email me! If you're not asking between 8a-6p M-F eastern US time, or after midnight US Eastern time during the week, I'm likely able to pop on and sort you out with everything you need. Note that just asking in #wurm isn't enough usually. Perhaps we should consider a #wurmtest? (Do recall feedback on testing was asked for in the last news! Missed opportunities everywhere!) If you want to test... come at me bro! I'm good. We can do this. I'm in. I'm game. We shall not let our dreams remain untested dreams. And now back to a boring day at work! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 Why do you blame the players, Keenan? You are a dev, it is your responsibility to bring out features, which make sense, are balanced, fun... you name it. When you are not able to do that, it is you, who failed, not the players. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, rixk said: Why do you blame the players, Keenan? You are a dev, it is your responsibility to bring out features, which make sense, are balanced, fun... you name it. When you are not able to do that, it is you, who failed, not the players. is it Keenans fault that you can't read or give feedback? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 the features are overall balanced. the lack of documentation is certain and still hurt everyone involved... be it in the testing or from reading the patch notes... same issues since years. Now, what Keenan did was adding something according to specifications asked by the team / players and tested on the test server and fixed according to the feedback here. Is it a game changing feature, yes, do i think it's a nice one to have maybe, is it implemented in a way i like, certainly not since i'd rather have seen it as a trader item (money sink / funding CCAB / limiting potential griefing). Am I blaming the guy adding features nope. Don't blame the coders for adding features that have been asked for, blame whoever is not doing his job in collecting / sharing the needed data and ourselves when we are not here to do the testing and feedback needed. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 19 minutes ago, thekraken said: I play on the PVP servers and I can see how it might be used to grief but from what i'm understanding Theres a height limit on the tiles it can be used - 20 slope I think IT can't be used outside of kingdom influence- how you going to grief an enemy and you can only remove tiles that have been placed by transformation liquids not ones that were created by the server? I think its q decently thought through system. I however don't agree with putting it on epic and not chaos, if it's bad for chaos (not saying it is or isn't) then its deffinetely bad for epic?? also another gripe of how this information was delivered, you just said there live and all the information I've gathered has been from multiple posts, we need detailed clarification of new features and mechanics in the news or a seperate post, or hell even make a wiki page with detailed facts and mechanics from the devs who made. I'm a wiki editor and would have no problem creating and adding new pages to the wiki if a dev sent me the specific mechanics and facts on a new feature before it was released so the player base might have a reference the day of the new features release. The slope limit is irrelevant, as you can easily turn flat tiles to clay and then raise them up into claywalls, and then transmute back the top tile of the clay wall to dirt in order to build your longhouses. As I understand it, only creation requires kingdom influence, not removal, so I can roam around JK land removing all your clay tiles. Luckily lemons are in season, and you will have to wait until apple season to restore your clay. And as I understand it, this may be done to any tile, whether it was made via transmutation or natural. This is why these changes are unwanted on pvp servers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Keenan said: That wasn't the only source of Feedback. Again, my point stands. If you disagree with something, Feedback. PROPER feedback. Trolling != Feedback. Trolling is ignored. Steps for proper feedback 1) If available on Test, log in. 2) Test. 3) Consider results. 4) Formulate a reply with information useful to the design and development of the game. 5) "This sucks" and "This will ruin PvP" are not examples of proper feedback. (They're called opinions) If I sound bitter, I might be. I put a lot of time in to help the community do the proper feedback needed and the result was maybe a dozen people? Out of how many? I said the same thing about Permissions, about Bridges, and I will say it about this. Test and Feedback or sit back and hold on. It's about time. Thank you for stepping up to explain this, and trying to outline a common sense approach to giving feedback. For a while I was starting to feel like the only person willing to have a mature discussion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 I for one think it should be on pvp servers. Now if you put in the serious amount of work needed to do it... for every single tile you do... hats off to you but as of right now simple dirt walls and long houses prevent most ppl from knocking them down... i cant remember the last time i saw a "fortress" get knocked down on epic.... like... really... i think going to all the work to try and make huge tiles out of clay or tar or whatever is a waste of time... but i also think extra long houses are a waste of time in general if no one is bothering to attack you.... rather than doing defenses for years on end... *kicks sword into your hand* PVP if you are actually dedicated to the glory of pvp.. them making walls out of clay wont be a real hinderance to you demolishing them... only makes it more satisfying. most actual deed destroying ive seen since epic started has been personal vendetta.... exception with league of pirates pmk. and when its personal.... not much will stop an attacker. Nothing is impregnable. but im happy about the tile transformations. Good Job Dev Team had to throw a positive comment into the mix. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, rixk said: Why do you blame the players, Keenan? You are a dev, it is your responsibility to bring out features, which make sense, are balanced, fun... you name it. When you are not able to do that, it is you, who failed, not the players. No offense, but players can't act like children and expect everything to go their way. We were all kids once, and hopefully we were taught to have some sense of respect and responsibility. Slapping someone in the face with your disappointments isn't how communication works effectively. The devs do make mistakes, no one is saying they don't, but for goodness sake let's put away the pitch forks before we embarass ourselves further. Playing the blame game is bullcrap pulled by 6 year old children. We're too grown for that. Let the devs own up to their mistakes and work to fix them, and we [community] can own up to our crappy attitudes and work to fix that. Edited February 29, 2016 by Slickshot Clarification that not ALL community members act like children. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 What I want to know was , as far as I know, only one community in epic has had Retrograde talk to them so far about changes to pvp, which includes this asinine change to the way tiles can be changed. SO when are you going to talk to the rest of the 4 communities there are on epic? And why didn't you before bringing this change onto a pvp server? Is epic not a pvp server4 still? Did we suddenly change to freedom? Or have we always been freedom hmmmmm.............................. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 welp ... i was going to prem my epic account NEKMINUT Reads patch notes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 35 minutes ago, Slickshot said: No offense, but players can't act like children and expect everything to go their way. We were all kids once, and hopefully we were taught to have some sense of respect and responsibility. Slapping someone in the face with your disappointments isn't how communication works effectively. The devs do make mistakes, no one is saying they don't, but for goodness sake let's put away the pitch forks before we embarass ourselves further. Playing the blame game is bullcrap pulled by 6 year old children. We're too grown for that. Let the devs own up to their mistakes and work to fix them, and we [community] can own up to our crappy attitudes and work to fix that. My point is only, that all the good and bad effects of any feature should come out already at the planning stage. ESPECIALLY the bad effects: "how could the feature be abused", "how it can break something", whatever.. And I say, that while we are getting some really nice features.. many of the features, during planning stage lack clearminded analyze. A lot relies on just wishful thinking of the devs. OK, fine by that.. can really happen.. but then let's get into a real dialogue. This is not a dialogue: "It is your fault, that you didn't come to test". While it would be of course nice of us to go and help to test, it is not something that can be expected. And if noone doesn't go to test, thats what the devs sadly have to live with. But that doesn't mean, that players won't tell, when they don't like something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 Just wondering, how many worried about abuse have tested this in any form or know how difficult it even is? It's not even on my list of fathomable things to do to find any way to make our dirt walls tar, even more so considering it's practically griefing ourselves to do it 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, rixk said: OK, fine by that.. can really happen.. but then let's get into a real dialogue. This is not a dialogue: "It is your fault, that you didn't come to test". While it would be of course nice of us to go and help to test, it is not something that can be expected. And if noone doesn't go to test, thats what the devs sadly have to live with. But that doesn't mean, that players won't tell, when they don't like something. If players do not wish to test features (and a lot seem to enjoy testing) then it comes to a point where they can't expect everything at the snap of their fingers because the staff would have to be busy on test before releasing updates. If you take a look at the forums over the past few years you'll find that not only do players want 100% quality on their updates, but they also want them now. We've done a bang up job of being very picky of our updates, but also very impatient. I can't speak to how the devs choose to operate because that isn't my department, but advice from life will tell you that you can't always have your cake and eat it too. The overall point here is something has got to give, and I don't just mean on the developer side of things either...we as players need to loosen the choke hold a bit too. This is a cooperative performance, after-all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 Regarding feedback: Arguments that are written well have the most leverage. Just like inflation of currency, your words are devalued when buried in an ugly block of complaints. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 21 minutes ago, MrGARY said: Just wondering, how many worried about abuse have tested this in any form or know how difficult it even is? It's not even on my list of fathomable things to do to find any way to make our dirt walls tar, even more so considering it's practically griefing ourselves to do it you say this as if we have that ability. it requires a priest on the test server, which we do not have the ability to become without the help of a gm, and the gms would not help Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Alexgopen said: you say this as if we have that ability. it requires a priest on the test server, which we do not have the ability to become without the help of a gm, and the gms would not help Keenan was offering to help for a quite a while with his Test GM. The was even a thread in Town Square about it. Edited February 29, 2016 by Firestarter 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Firestarter said: Keenan was offering to help for a quite a while with his Test GM. The was even a thread in Town Square abut it. Yeah. Kind of defeats the whole blame-game band wagon doesn't it? Thanks for pointing it out. Edited February 29, 2016 by Slickshot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) why did it post twice Edited February 29, 2016 by Josh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 29, 2016 So what im hearing from keenan is that opinion /= feedback? That is the most invalid statement i have ever read. You can not have feedback in this case without opinion. If you ask how we like the liquids, and we say "they suck" that is both opinion and feedback, no matter what you say. "a reaction or response to a particular process or activity" straight from the dictionary bud. also: lol @ keenan saying that feedback is important and they cant make changes without it. if only you actually looked at feedback, cuz we give you plenty of it. You just dont listen. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
