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thirtynine

Ban Discussion+Rule Revision: Champ Point Farming

Rule Revision  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in favor of the rule revision and player punishment reduced?



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  Hey everyone, recently a Champion of Ebonaura was banned for Champ Point farming.  The player was the first person in my time playing on Wurm that a Champion killed an alt.  At first we assumed they had the champ point revoked and was warned.  Later this week the player was de-champed (3 lives) and Banned for X period of time.  I would first off like to say, we applaud the Wurm team for trying to only lightly enforce the rule.  We appreciate the clarification effort they put into before subjecting the player in question to be banned.

 

  The rule in question calls for Champions whom kill alts to be permanently banned.  Not only are they to be permanently banned but it also calls for their deed to be disbanded.  This comes from an era where Champions once required Champ points to stay alive.  Since then champ points have been changed to only be used for casting.

 

  For those who don't know.  When you champion you get +5 to your characteristics, as well as a +50 boost to; Channeling, Prayer, Exorcism.  The +50 only applies up to 80 in each skill.  As well as your faith goes to 100 and a 50% damage reduction.  This makes them perfect if your kingdom doesn't have a high channeling priest.

 

  How ever since the past days where champions could easily cast on tools/weapons/armor.  It is now no longer a real issue.  As all kingdoms on chaos have dedicated casting priests with 95+ Channeling.  While I think that for the sake Champions still being a highly valued Pvp target/status.  They should still not be allowed to kill alts nor champ point abuse.  

 

 

  As a leader of Macedon, I am speaking for my whole kingdom when I say that we would like the rule to be revised.  We are asking for the following revision;

 

1st Offense: Champ point removal and a warning. (As well as the affinity and FS gained)

2nd Offense: Champ Life stripped as well as the punishment from the 1st offense

3rd Offense: De-champed, and banned for X period to be determined by GM.

 

  The following change would be a fair and adequate punishment.  The punishment for the rule was enacted in a different time period, going back many mechanic changes.  We, Macedon feel that it is no longer an appropriate punishment.  I am hoping that here today that we have successfully reached the staff team.  As well as we wish our respected enemy Ebonaura, a 2nd chance.

 

  People make mistakes, for w/e reason the Ebonaurian had to kill that alt we don't know.  All we do know is that we feel he should not be punished for making a small mistake.  I am hoping and imploring that the staff team can re-evaluate this rule and lessen said punishment for the player.  There is a poll included.  I hope everyone will take the time to vote. 


Thank you for reading,

-Macedon

Edited by thirtynine
  • Like 5

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Jesus I didn't even know about this incident, of course it seems overboard. I can completely agree with Thirtynine on the listed rule revision. Maximillian seemed like a pretty cool guy in the few short conversations I had with him. 
Would be nice for him to get his champion-hood restored if he is unbanned as well, guy only lasted like a week. Very sad to see.

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I think the hard part comes from "killing an alt". How to define that. As alt killing on chaos is not prohibited it might be hard to monitor. Maybe make it so that instead of killing for champ points the chanpion has to go into enemy infulence and deeds from time to time? So there wont be this issue. And permaban and deed disbanded for killing an alt is a real overkill.

 

 

Edited by Wulfgarr

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I dont know the full story as of yet but from the sounds of it who ever handled the situation perhaps handled it as listed in old rules but since this hasnt been any type of issue for a long long time perhaps the decison was a bit overboard. 

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I Never even heard of this rule till just know..

i have been talking about going champ soon as my skill's get fixed

seem fitting

Quote

1st Offense: Champ point removal and a warning. (As well as the affinity and FS gained)

2nd Offense: Champ Life stripped as well as the punishment from the 1st offense

3rd Offense: De-champed, and banned for X period to be determined by GM.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-rules/

 


 

Quote

 

Cheating 
Definition:
* Obvious abuse of any exploit, bug or other method of gaining skill/items that is not as intended. (macros are covered by the rule above)
* Sniffing game communication data, trying to hack the server, or altering the client in any way.
* Using any tool that directly interacts with the Wurm Online client or with the network communication to enhance game play.
* Connecting to the Wurm Online game server with anything other than the official client.
Gaining champion points outside of normal PvP. (example: Draining your own or a friends deeds, or killing avatars provided only as a service for champion points.)


 

Hell i had to look on wiki for what even give's champ point's to understand this rule..

i would recommend you at link after this rule  to http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Champion_player

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From what I heard he didn't even get a champ point from it, maybe this should get looked into?

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Maximillian did indeed get 1 champ point from the alt killing.  That was confirmed.

 

Also the GM did nothing wrong.  The normal ban is a perm and the disbanding of their deed.  In this case the GM the right thing and sought discussion about it.  I am happy that we have GM's who actively seek out to better our gaming experience.  I also thank them for their time and effort they put in.  I know they made sure they could do everything in their power to allow Max to keep playing.

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-1 the rule is there and it's not a secret. Whether or not Chaos has good priests doesn't matter.

 

While I personally feel that champing as a whole should be removed or at least reverted back to the 1 point per day mechanic, it's still a great benefit to kill alts for fight skill, affinities and the extra casts as well as the epeen points.

 

I just wish they permanently banned everyone who killed alts. 

  • Like 7

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I heard that the char was under 50fs in which case he wouldnt have gained a champ point right?

 

Either way, I feel perhaps the rules should be stated when champing up as some players may not be so knowledgable of such small rules. But yeah, the ruling seems overly harsh, so +1 to this.

Edited by Redd

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Ok if this is to be taken in account, it should completely ignore this incident and be taken in account from future.


Why?

You know there's a rule > You break the rule > Then you try to bend the rules to avoid the consequences.

NOPE

I like the idea but the person who breaks the rule should definitely be punished under the current circumstances.

Also, if you put it as a temporary ban or something lower than that, then it is definitely going to happen in future and people won't take it seriously. Think the ruling is fair and should remain like this. 


Simple fact: Don't do it.

 

-1

 

Seriously, unlike PvE, there's hardly any rules you can break on chaos.....

And Icbash, wurmpedia is mainly maintained by the players. Devs do not have the time to post the game rules in wurmpedia sections. You are supposed to read the rules before you play. And when you log in, it is assumed that you already have read the game rules, and everything you do after that means you are choosing to violate the game rules. "I did not even know about this rule till yet" kinda doesn't cut when you break it. 

 

And Redd, why would they mention during champing that "do not gain champ points from alts or we will punish you", in that sense they should also mention things like "do not do anything in your neighour's perimeter" when we plant a deed. And there's a hundred other things in wurm that would need such mentioning. O_O


And to the OP
"  People make mistakes, for w/e reason the Ebonaurian had to kill that alt we don't know. "

Duh he wanted a champ point from the alt...duh...duhhh....

Edited by Hashirama

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There was noalt farming or champion point gained to my knowledge the character gauntlet is around 28fs and only died to a single hit as a damage test not to farm anything. I think the punishment far out weighs the ?crime? Considering its only champ point farming that's the rule. Where would I even see my champ points?

 

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19 minutes ago, Maximillian said:

There was noalt farming or champion point gained to my knowledge the character gauntlet is around 28fs and only died to a single hit as a damage test not to farm anything. I think the punishment far out weighs the ?crime? Considering its only champ point farming that's the rule. Where would I even see my champ points?

 

 

In game rules:

"Punishment: Varies on a case by case bases including permanent ban and loss of skills.
 - In the specific case of champion point exploitation all avatars involved will be banned and their deeds disbanded. "

 ^^^ You forgot to pull that much out Icbash.

It clearly says here that any attempt to exploit champion point system would have a penalty of perma ban. So there is a specific penalty for this issue, and still you have the balls to do it?? Am pretty sure you could have done the dmg check on a mob or an ebonaura alt. 

 

Edited by Hashirama

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That fact is the rule tells you that gaining champion points in the mentioned ways is banned non of which I did hashi so not sure what you're on about.

 

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2 minutes ago, Maximillian said:

That fact is the rule tells you that gaining champion points in the mentioned ways is banned non of which I did hashi so not sure what you're on about.

 


Thirtynine already said that it was confirmed that you got a champ point.
Also, attempting to break a rule isn't ok either is it? (go try to steal something and when you are caught before doing it, say "but i didnt steal it yet")
Not sure what miracle am discussing here if you do not know what am on about. It is pretty much on point with references to game rules and everything.

Edited by Hashirama

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Who is thirynine and how would he know what I did and didnt get? Hashi you're making up facts you weren't there n

or do you know me or who my alts are so don't worry about my case.

 

Edited by Maximillian

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5 minutes ago, Hashirama said:

 

In game rules:

"Punishment: Varies on a case by case bases including permanent ban and loss of skills.
 - In the specific case of champion point exploitation all avatars involved will be banned and their deeds disbanded. "

You forgot to pull that much out Icbash. It clearly says here that any attempt to exploit champion point system would have a penalty of perma ban. So there is a specific penalty for this issue, and still you have the balls to do it?? Am pretty sure you could have done the dmg check on a mob or an ebonaura alt. 

 

Hash U better reread my post.... becuz you did not understand a damn word i said

i pointed out what 39 said seemed fair. then i pointed out the rules don't really show anof info pointed out how putting a url to the wiki would help....

 

Quote

And Icbash, wurmpedia is mainly maintained by the players. Devs do not have the time to post the game rules in wurmpedia sections. You are supposed to read the rules before you play. And when you log in, it is assumed that you already have read the game rules, and everything you do after that means you are choosing to violate the game rules. "I did not even know about this rule till yet" kinda doesn't cut when you break it. 

ROLF!!! really man really.. go look at wiki. hit View History at about any page...u will find
(cur | prev) 16:33, September 28, 2015‎ Icbash (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (1,301 bytes) (-29)‎ . . (undo)

only been a editor for over year. becuz its one of my biggest ######'s lack of info.

 

know if we want to get down to letter of the LAW.. this would of been throw out of court..

and as rule read's

Gaining champion points outside of normal PvP. (example: Draining your own or a friends deeds, or killing avatars provided only as a service for champion points.)

Wiki Info

Champion points

  • You start out with 0 champion points.
  • You gain 3 points for draining an enemy deed with 5+ guards.
  • You gain 30 points for being involved in a kill on an enemy champion.
  • You gain 1 point when you record a kill on an enemy with 50+ fight skill. You may gain point like this 1 time per day from the same player and 10 times from the same player.
  • You also get the champion points worth of any battle points you gain from any kill.
  • You lose 1 champion point per week down to 0.

Maximillian

Quote

There was noalt farming or champion point gained to my knowledge the character gauntlet is around 28fs and only died to a single hit as a damage test not to farm anything. I think the punishment far out weighs the ?crime? Considering its only champ point farming that's the rule. Where would I even see my champ points?

 

so the char is below 50fs so there for no champ point awarded or should not be awarded. so there for the ban should be even a thing. and if it was champ's are bugged and need code Fixed.DEV!!!!

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1 minute ago, Maximillian said:

Who is thirynine and how would he know what I did and didnt get? Hashi you're making up facts you weren't there n

or do you know me or who my alts are so don't worry about my case.

 


Hey, almost everyone commenting here wasn't there when you killed your alt. So in the light of your logic, all their comments should be deemed to be of no value and the case can be closed?
This is a suggestion and I am simply putting my input on it.
 

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Forum pvp is fun to watch.  It is like a recruiting thread for PvE.

  • Like 3

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14 minutes ago, icbash said:

 

Champion points

  • You start out with 0 champion points.
  • You gain 3 points for draining an enemy deed with 5+ guards.
  • You gain 30 points for being involved in a kill on an enemy champion.
  • You gain 1 point when you record a kill on an enemy with 50+ fight skill. You may gain point like this 1 time per day from the same player and 10 times from the same player.
  • You also get the champion points worth of any battle points you gain from any kill.
  • You lose 1 champion point per week down to 0.

Maximillian

so the char is below 50fs so there for no champ point awarded or should not be awarded. so there for the ban should be even a thing. and if it was champ's are bugged and need code Fixed.DEV!!!!

 

Omg this guy is so damn clueless.

1st of all, almost anyone can edit the wurmpedia. Even I have an account there. It may not be true that 50+ fs is required to gain a champ point from an alt. It can be premium player requirement or 20+ fs requirement or anything. Everything you read from the wiki is not true.
Try to understand this. The wiki is not god, it's made by players and the game changes over time.

 

2nd: posting a link of "game rules" at the "champ player" page wiki would be a good option? Most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Then there should be a need for a link on the "settlement stake" of game rules for PvE as well so that people don't grief their neighbours on pve. Like seriously, do you think before posting? Why would devs, or even me, or anyone post game rules at every other article of the wurmpedia. Do not suggest something that dumb as an excuse for breaking a rule. 

You do not need to be pointed at every instance towards the game rules, in order to keep you in line, that's just a lame excuse.


3rd: Above all discussion, attempting to break a rule is equally wrong.

NOTE OF WISE: There is literally 5 rules you can break on a PvP server. And only one of them has a compulsory perma ban penalty. Yet if you can manage to pull that one golden stunt off, you have guts. 

Edited by Hashirama

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Meh.  I don't play in a PvP environment, so this is just my opinion from a basis of justice, and not from experience.  Remember, just an opinion.  Personally I think 1st offense should receive a temporary ban, and de-champ, no matter if it was intentional or an accident.  A 2nd offense should warrant perma ban on all avatars associated with that account (alts).

Edited by Slickshot

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1 minute ago, Hashirama said:

 

Omg this guy is so damn clueless.

1st of all, almost anyone can edit the wurmpedia. Even I have an account there. It may not be true that 50+ fs is required to gain a champ point from an alt. It can be premium player requirement or 20+ fs requirement or anything. Everything you read from the wiki is not true.
Try to understand this. The wiki is not god, it's made by players and the game changes over time.

 

2nd: posting a link of "game rules" at the "champ player" page wiki would be a good option? Most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Then there should be a need for a link on the "settlement stake" of game rules for PvE as well so that people don't grief their neighbours on pve. Like seriously, do you think before posting? Why would devs, or even me, or anyone post game rules at every other article of the wurmpedia. Do not suggest something that dumb as an excuse for breaking a rule. 

You do not need to be pointed at every instance towards the game rules, in order to keep you in line, that's just a lame excuse.

1st U are the clueless one...

Im Pointing out the Rules do not go into anof detail..

 

2nd

Where else can someone got to get more info on the Damn rule's.. or even what the rule's mean..

 

Yes anyone can edit wiki... but there are limitations  unless mods give you the prem's

 

so if u want it your way they need to go into more detail's about

Gaining champion points outside of normal PvP. (example: Draining your own or a friends deeds, or killing avatars provided only as a service for champion points.)

 

Because i don't know what a champ is or even how they work.. with out a wiki.

Soul Depth HELP SPELL CAST!!!

Because that what everyone say's..

 

THE INFO HAS TO BE WHERE EVERYONE CAN GET IT. AND UNDERSTAND IT...

 

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Oh man I give up.Icbash, I think you should make a suggestion about Wurmpedia. I love your idea, should totally do that.

" THE INFO HAS TO BE WHERE EVERYONE CAN GET IT. AND UNDERSTAND IT... " Yes I agree, but it is not the main subject we are discussing here dear loved one.

 

Now, on topic:

 

The rules in the GM hall are pretty straightforward.

 

"Punishment: Varies on a case by case bases including permanent ban and loss of skills.
 - In the specific case of champion point exploitation all avatars involved will be banned and their deeds disbanded. "

In simple terms: You are not supposed to kill alts that you own in other kingdoms. Because it may say on wurmpedia that you need 50+ fs alts only to gain champ points, but it might actually not be like that in game (because again: wurmpedia isn't 100% accurate), because the game changes. And regardless it was an attempt to gain champ points or not, it did violate the game rule and hence the punishment.

I think many players like Icbash and maximillian most likely do not even have an idea of what this suggestion is about. It is about making the punishment lenient, and I oppose that. -1 to OP.



That is pretty much what I wanted to say, open to other people's input as well, will keep checking the thread out. (maybe we get lucky and are allowed to break rules on a daily basis in future ^_^ )

Edited by Hashirama

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i glad u finely read what i was saying..

the lack of info on the rule needs be fixed..

rules should be followed  and changed over time. to better bring them inline with  whats going on. That point 39 was making..

i was pointing out fact lack of info on rule's are partly to blame for this.

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