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Odynn

Shattering, the bane of channeling

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you win some, you lose some...

 

it's the way the system have worked for a long time to keep OP items and casts to always go hand by hand.

 

what happened with source liquids?/rare to get~, saves the precious item from blowing up :o

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Shatter is terrifying. We need something to at least protect the valuable items from shattering. Metallic liquid doesnt work and it only was supposed to work on weapons. Weapons arent the only valuable items.

 

 

 

 

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Maybe have shatter roles deal extreme damage rather then destroying it once your channeling is 30 or higher then the difficulty of the spell.

Would be nice if metallic liquid worked, But even then it would only work on weapons, and weapon casts don't wear off over time so you wouldn't even really need it to be re-casted if your weapon already had some good casts.

I think it would be better if shattering was negated with 30+ channeling then the difficulty, or metallic liquid would be usable on all items. Or even have 90+QL items be immune to shattering.

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With as many priests as we have in the game I don't think that it's a great idea to change these mechanics. Tools and other items, even at high qualities and enchants, are already very cheap and if this is changed they will become even cheaper, essentially making them worthless unless extremely high because people will just keep trying to enchant it until they get 90+.

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1 hour ago, Yldrania said:

because people will just keep trying to enchant it until they get 90+.

 

i already do this with the shatter chance so makes no difference to me and probably most people that don't care about markets and just want to get things done

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On 4/16/2017 at 3:56 AM, MrGARY said:

 

You're not thinking in the right ways.  If someone lost their 50th pickaxe it doesn't really matter that much, it can be replaced

But now imagine you saved up/bought/whatever your glimmersteel helm, and your drake or scale armor pieces, and they're all imped to 90ql, and you shatter one of them not because you didn't grind enough channeling, but literally because the game said you should always be able to shatter

 

not even a what if, our bicycle priest with 94 channeling blew up a villager's 90ql glimmer helm

 

Then don't cast on items that you can't afford to replace. It's part of the risk/reward equation.

 

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7 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

i already do this with the shatter chance so makes no difference to me and probably most people that don't care about markets and just want to get things done

Nobody cares how that item's going to be used..  what you do is putting more value into one already valuable item, that is where the "nerf" comes into play to keep some sanity around all this. Grinding channeling and favor making are WAY EASIER than they used to be. You want 100% shatter free way for items, that's reasonable... IF there was an easy way to get ql100 items every day.. last I checked people with 100 titles still have ~hard time getting to ql90 w/o imbued tools/casts/rarity on tools/and some... time.

 

1 hour ago, bdew said:

 

Then don't cast on items that you can't afford to replace. It's part of the risk/reward equation.

 

I agree with this. It's a game mechanic, you just play with it.

 

 

Some people find gambling/rng/ fun, and casting is all about that... you could make a few silvers in 1 action.. or lose some. vs. minutes-to-hours.. to get that item created/improved/rng for rarity or bones to get that... slapping an easy 90-100 cast for free is... :huh:

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Tl:dr

 

Risk is absolutely necessary regardless of skill, and i definitely agree that imping in casting shouldnt be compared, but i also agree w/ odynn that a random set of numbers shouldnt dictate the shatter.  Im not going to pretend to understand any coding, but couldnt they do something in between? Like make high level casting slightly harder (higher general shatter %) and then jusy tear out the random factor?  Thats a little more for "save the economy, shatter weapons" and also a win for anyone who does have the channeling to do higher casts. 

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+ 1 to removing the base chance to shattering - at 100 channeling. if you get there you deserve it.

 

before that -1. shattering good items makes for fun stories.

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Welk thats the thing tho.... everything in wurm has a bit of randomness, and yes channeling SHOULD be harder than other skills, its very valuable.... i dont think anyone should be impervious to shatters 100 channeling or not..... but 1/100 chance (is that the rando factor?) Regardless of skill is heinous

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I guess what im saying is....

 

+1 

get rid of random dice, add other difficulties to balance it

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On 4/22/2017 at 3:26 AM, bdew said:

Then don't cast on items that you can't afford to replace. It's part of the risk/reward equation.

 

That's like saying once you learned to walk without falling and perfected your balance as a grown up you should cover your side walk with random marbles that can roll under your feet randomly because there should always be a risk of falling and the reward is getting passed the sidewalk and if you don't want the risk you shouldn't remove the marbles that make no sense and instead stay inside

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23 hours ago, Arium said:

+ 1 to removing the base chance to shattering - at 100 channeling. if you get there you deserve it.

 

before that -1. shattering good items makes for fun stories.

Too much power, risk-free, naahh.. it's way easier to grind after the update, among other things...

 

23 hours ago, elvenwing said:

I guess what im saying is....

 

+1 

get rid of random dice, add other difficulties to balance it

balance have always been the risk to lose the item from rng and skill.. at high skill you have almost no risks from skill.. you're left to gamble with the rng 'alone'

 

8 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

That's like saying once you learned to walk without falling and perfected your balance as a grown up you should cover your side walk with random marbles that can roll under your feet randomly because there should always be a risk of falling and the reward is getting passed the sidewalk and if you don't want the risk you shouldn't remove the marbles that make no sense and instead stay inside

no marbles, just rng and skill here, and rng loves to scare big grindy priests at night; and no.. you basically never perfect that balance to keep the balance in the game.

 

 

How about an alchemy recipe?

At least QL70 or better..

a SET OF ALL UNIQUE BLOODS + chopped garlic or something..:lol:..

to get a 1 time shatter-free 'charge'(used up if item gets the unlucky shatter roll), when it comes to that.. item drops from whatever ql to QL1 but remains intact or clears casts(depending on how cruel devs could be)

 

and that to be usable on any kind of rare/supreme/fantastic items, OF COURSE WITH 2-3x multiplier(more ingredients) based on rarity:huh:(sounds fun?)

Does the value of all that make it hard enough to get your items safe, probably.. for some..

How much do you care for your items and how much are you willing to sacrifice to not lose them?

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This thread:

9831325.jpg

 

As a priest, i don't give a crap how many mass-produced items i will blow up while enchanting for a big sale. But when somebody blows up your beloved supreme tool or something, remember all your counter-arguments about economy and ######. Oh right, won't happen to you, you'll sell it blank to avoid risks.

 

Economy, huh? Two rare butchering knives died when i wanted one enchanted for myself. Am I going to buy another or a casted one? Hell no, and here goes your "positive" economy effect.

 

+1 again and forever

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Keep as is, already few enough ways to remove items from circulation

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On 15/04/2017 at 8:56 PM, MrGARY said:

 

You're not thinking in the right ways.  If someone lost their 50th pickaxe it doesn't really matter that much, it can be replaced

But now imagine you saved up/bought/whatever your glimmersteel helm, and your drake or scale armor pieces, and they're all imped to 90ql, and you shatter one of them not because you didn't grind enough channeling, but literally because the game said you should always be able to shatter

 

not even a what if, our bicycle priest with 94 channeling blew up a villager's 90ql glimmer helm

Moon metal armor is extremely easy to get... I went to VERY VERY few rifts ever since it came out with two premium characters and managed to get a piece of armor. Anybody who really cares about this part of the game could easily get into 3 rifts a week and stockpile on moon metals for this kind of stuff. Glimmersteel is the best type of armor can get, correct me if im wrong. Seryll is shatter-proof and not as good for a reason. If you expect to have the BEST items in the game, you should have some type of difficulty even if you are the BEST (at 100). Besides, anything beyond plate armor on a horse is just luxury. Nothing is worth gloating about if it only took time and no risk. I still say that Rarity items are my exception. Attempting to make a rarity for a specific item is so far the most annoying thing i have encountered, and just like the rarity can reduce damage and decay as well as other special affects, i believe they should have something like a "Rarity level*33%" chance to avoid the shatter. (that would make the 1% a .67% for rare, .34% for supreme, and .01% for fantastic). But everything should be able to shatter, even people when healing them.

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1 hour ago, Yiraia said:

Besides, anything beyond plate armor on a horse is just luxury. Nothing is worth gloating about if it only took time and no risk.

 

ok its good that you are referring to talking about slaying wildcats in full glimmer but my thoughts are in reference to where you normally have to earn the metal by risk of dying combined with risk of losing it by playing the game

 

if you are in a weaker kingdom looking to get what's required for competing you won't have the farming ability that stronger kingdoms will have.  you need moonmetal/drake/scale armor, moon metal weapons, rare+ horse gear, 70-90ql everything, and much more.  it's already a large enough tunnel to crawl through to get ready, the risk of shattering something that probably isnt very easily obtained for everyone without risk of losing even more stuff literally "just because" and "markets" and "luxury" is a bit crazy

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41 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

ok its good that you are referring to talking about slaying wildcats in full glimmer but my thoughts are in reference to where you normally have to earn the metal by risk of dying combined with risk of losing it by playing the game

 

if you are in a weaker kingdom looking to get what's required for competing you won't have the farming ability that stronger kingdoms will have.  you need moonmetal/drake/scale armor, moon metal weapons, rare+ horse gear, 70-90ql everything, and much more.  it's already a large enough tunnel to crawl through to get ready, the risk of shattering something that probably isnt very easily obtained for everyone without risk of losing even more stuff literally "just because" and "markets" and "luxury" is a bit crazy

Ah Pvp, i know nothing about it. With my lack of knowledge I'll just say If everybody has the chance to get something shattered, everybody will be on an even playing field. If everybody doesn't have the chance of shattering something because they are 90+, then everybody will be on an even playing field. Am I incorrect? as far as i know, no new person would "catch up", Veterans would just get extras available and nothing will change. again i will acknowledge that i know very little about pvp and you may shut down everything i have said :3 but what you are saying doesnt make sense to me.

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Well, the whole pvp thing aside, the devs acknowledge there is an issue with shattering, or we wouldn't have shattering prevention runes or the metalic liquid supposed to prevent said shattering but we cannot use.

 

if you want ways to remove items from the circulation, heck, just add instant destruction on failed carving (you know, a bow with a large notch will just break when you draw it) or instant destruction on failed tempering (tried to screw up a temper IRL... that's how you utterly destroy that perfect blade), i won't even speak of mortar and stone quality, bad stitches on clothes or leather amors and so on.

 

Risk vs rewards can't apply to only one skill... specially when said skill involves rolling a dice over and over again till you get an interesting cast. So maybe it's time that channeling get some love and works in a decent way where skill matters and the hardcoded shattering be either removed or the in game solutions to be actually working.

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4 minutes ago, Odynn said:

Risk vs rewards can't apply to only one skill... specially when said skill involves rolling a dice over and over again till you get an interesting cast.

I thought it is applied to every skill including crafting? Is it possible to have a 100% crafting chance and im just bad? the fact that a person about 70 masonry and 50 stonecutting can fail 1% of the time but people make mistakes i understand. Besides Magic is a whole new topic that requires a person to abandon other activities such as continuing actions and improving. Priest should not be compared to crafter due to their impact on the game.

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Just now, Yiraia said:

I thought it is applied to every skill including crafting? Is it possible to have a 100% crafting chance and im just bad? the fact that a person about 70 masonry and 50 stonecutting can fail 1% of the time but people make mistakes i understand. Besides Magic is a whole new topic that requires a person to abandon other activities such as continuing actions and improving. Priest should not be compared to crafter due to their impact on the game.

Currently Channeling is the only skill that can destroy an item on a failure. Applying that to masonry, failing to improve a wall with masonry would destroy the entire building.

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:huh:Metallic liquid is currently not working... so why bother waiting for that to be fixed.. lets get rid of the problem all together now, right?

You've accepted the shattering and gambling long ago... but now you're tired of it?

Is it bad to get lucky 100 casts in 1 action?:huh:

Is it going to be more fun to be a priest if you had to improve casts by little bits like crafting... fail/ improve... over and over for 2-3-500 actions to get a single item to 90/+ power?:rolleyes:

If shattering is removed.. what's to keep this skill on the ground? there are no limitation.. and you get the power to make items absurdly more useful with nothing to hold you back..<_<:unsure::wacko:

crafting crafting crafting...doesn't have shattering..   yea..   but it takes time, and deals with fails even at 90/+ skill, RNG holds people down to redo actions...:mellow:

 

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Shatter is of no concern when you are spamming regular items to sell. It is more beneficial to sell dozens of 80-90 chanted items, few 90 plus and 1 100 plus than try to push 1 item to 100 and sell it. Shatter starts to become an issue when you are enchanting a very valuable item for yourself or for when someone else. Shatter makes enchanting for someone else stressful knowing you might shatter the valauble item at any moment, no matter how high your channel is. You are in no way obliged to compensate for the shattered item but it is still embarrassing and unpleasant.

 

I dont think developers will ever remove shatter, but I do hope they add working ways to prevent shatter on all items.

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On 1/13/2016 at 7:33 AM, Pandalet said:

I'm kinda on the fence on this one.  I feel that there should be some chance of a shatter, but that it should probably be a lot lower.  Mind you, I might feel different if I'd just blown up a supreme pick with a 95 channeling priest...

 

If the options are 'leave it as it is' or 'remove it entirely', I'd go with removing shattering; if there's a 'massively reduce the chance' option, that would be where I'd vote.

 

Asdf, would you mind posting the full calculation that gave your table of shatter chances, please?  Enquiring minds want to know :)

 

 

Our alliance priest blew up 3 supreme weapons this year alone. 97 channeling , 100 faith , all weapons were 90+ql. That does not include any of the countless rares and normal things he has trashed. This randomness is just crazy bad. All we could say was  "Oh no not another shatter!"

 

If I imped someones pickax to 90 and I tried to temper it and it shattered ( in real life that can happen btw) there would be holyhell to pay but because it is a cast, which takes many many casts to get a good one, alot of work just like improving things does the random generator decides to shatter my pickax.

 

I am not on the fence at all on this one. the 1% or what ever the chance is that randomly destroys things needs to go. And yes reward the people who put time and effort into imping things past 90 to be cast apon, and worked hard on a priest to get channeling and what ever skills you want to throw in there to calculate success rates. Maybe even take the shatter chance out and add additional skill checks for say Soul Depth <cough> or what ever other skill that is chosen. To those that have not had a supreme or fantastic tool or weapon blow up yet, your day is coming, First cast on that shiny new supreme scale chest piece, just trying to get any power cast of web armor or aosp and POW it is gone --then you will understand how bad this mechanic really is. 

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