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Kegan

Trader Poll on Xanadu

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So i guess there is some poll on Xanadu about letting traders there from the other thread. I am making a new post because this is not about a suggestion on how to change them but about the actual poll and the traders as they currently work.


 


Does anyone have a screen shot of the poll? Is it for premium players or just Xanadu mayors? (I know that it is not f2p i logged on my alt and there was nothing)


 


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hmm im a premium player and a mayor and i got it, no screen shot sorry i did it earlier, but my alts didnt get it now that you mention it


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hmm im a premium player and a mayor and i got it, no screen shot sorry i did it earlier, but my alts didnt get it now that you mention it

If your alts are premium then must just be mayors.. if anyone gets a ss please post it up.

 

I just disbanded my deed yesterday and moved to Independance after the trader i had set was removed, lol

 

Edit: Well i was given an option to wait it out but decided to close it down and i would just set a new one if they do allow them.

Edited by Kegan

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I got it on both my premium accounts (one is not a mayor) but I've not logged in a non-prem account.


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Well only Rolf knows how the company has done without them on Xanadu.  I would guess there are a few more players paying more premium through the shop because of not allowing them but i am guess a whole lot more was made for the company from new players investing in the traders then leaving the game.  


 


I also think they can be made more useful then they are now but how i just don't know. I do like the fact that they can help pay my upkeep a little and is what they were meant to do i guess to some extent.


 


I am sure we will see all the naysayers in here soon but i am guessing there are loads more people on Xanadu that would like to have them there then the few against it.. that we will soon see here. (the ones against things are always the most vocal) 


Edited by Kegan

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Should Traders be allowed on Xanadu?


yes


no


yes, with some purchase restrictions (pretty vague here)


 


All my remaining prem alts could vote and none were deed holders.  My many non-prem deed holders were not allowed to vote and all were formerly prem.  Just to clear that bit up.


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Would really be nice to know what "yes, with some purchase restrictions" really meant.


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K, just checked.

With my main Greyfox and mayor of my main deed Foxden, got the poll

With my priest and prem and citizen of Foxden, did not get the poll

With my alt Grayfox(note the A instead of an E) who is a no longer prem(But has been prem) mayor of a different deed, no poll option.

Sorry, no screens, to lazy.

On a side note, I don't really care if traders come to Xan. They are a step better then forage farmers at least. But as a former trader owner, I'm biased.

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People being able to have more than one vote because of this multi account stuff is just about as bad as the traders mechanic...I also agree that they shouldn't have 'moved' the thread where I made my comment upon the subject. (Mods hiding comments they disagree with in sub forums/burying issues they disagree with, all this tripe...)


 


This is the type of stuff that makes this 'community' not worth being a part of. I've just about had it.


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So the poll does not even attempt to educate players as to the consequences attached to allowing traders on the server? Similarly the 3rd option, yes with restrictions, also does not go into any details. Then why would anybody with no knowledge of traders not simply vote Yes, as that equals: 'More features? Sure, why not?'.


 


These days I hardly care about traders, but this poll is clearly flawed because it does not supply any information to the people who can vote about what consequences are attached to these options. The natural choice in this poll for the uninformed is clearly anything but 'No', as why would you not want more features?


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Is the rare coins money shared with the traders ?


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So the poll does not even attempt to educate players as to the consequences attached to allowing traders on the server? Similarly the 3rd option, yes with restrictions, also does not go into any details. Then why would anybody with no knowledge of traders not simply vote Yes, as that equals: 'More features? Sure, why not?'.

 

These days I hardly care about traders, but this poll is clearly flawed because it does not supply any information to the people who can vote about what consequences are attached to these options. The natural choice in this poll for the uninformed is clearly anything but 'No', as why would you not want more features?

And what are the consequences?

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Is the rare coins money shared with the traders ?

no they are separate.. well say the pools is split up so 20% is sell, 20% is traders, 20% rare coins..etc  (the % is a made up number but that is how i understand it to be)  

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And what are the consequences?

 

Mini deeds laid all over the servers that serve no other purpose than to supply a 'elite' few with more money 'recycled' out of the economy and lining their pockets...which they often turn around and use the excuse of 'Well, I shill a bit out to new folks for their hard labor...'

 

Why should these people have this kind of control over the game's economy/money flow?

 

Why do you think it's OK to basically put people into what amounts to slavery? Why is it even a 'joke' on this game? Slavery is not amusing. People's TIME is valuable, and you give them crumbs for it? 'Yay! Congratulations to you!'

 

This is what's outright disgusting about this game, and capitalism as a whole.

 

I always find it amusing how people like to sit around badmouthing 'Those people who didn't do any work and just want freebies.' and then don't actually reward hard work. The people who sit around just milking game mechanics like this for free money they did jack for...that has actual RL money value...that they turn around and re-sell on to 'make some money' in RL.

 

That's the 'consequences' that nobody seems to want to bring to light. (Or that will likely get my comment removed.)

 

Edit to add : I speak as someone who's been around for nearly 2 years, who has fought tooth and nail for every bit of coin he's earned in this game...via normal trading methods using forums/trading with neighbors/trading via chat. I worked my behind off and got the skills up there, and have been able to save a whopping 46s....from the 6s I bought when I started. (I have boats that if they'd sell are worth maybe another 40s...and that's if I lowball myself on my prices...and have a few other rares and other items that could sell off for another small chunk of silver...) Just remember, that the coin leaves with me if I leave...and is permanently removed. I'm 'rich' in TIME, and prefer to do most everything myself.

Edited by Corsan
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Well, looks like I'll be making a trip to Xan tomorrow to vote no. 


 


Even though I think Rolf took giant steps towards removing the worst of the trader issues and that traders could safely go on Xan, what's the point?  I still have trouble with the very concept of them and think they should go.


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Mini deeds laid all over the servers that serve no other purpose than to supply a 'elite' few with more money 'recycled' out of the economy and lining their pockets...which they often turn around and use the excuse of 'Well, I shill a bit out to new folks for their hard labor...'

 

 

I don't believe it works that way anymore.  The deeds could still happen of course, but they would basically be a donation of silver to Rolf I believe.  Pretty sure they would be no more than about break even now.  I'm not worried about that anyway.  Don't own a trader and don't plan to.  Traders can still pay out well, but you need an active deed.  Still don't like them though and think they should go.

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I don't believe it works that way anymore.  The deeds could still happen of course, but they would basically be a donation of silver to Rolf I believe.  Pretty sure they would be no more than about break even now.  I'm not worried about that anyway.  Don't own a trader and don't plan to.  Traders can still pay out well, but you need an active deed.  Still don't like them though and think they should go.

 

'Breaking even'/getting a little extra IS the problem. People were just building whole deeds just to plant trader huts on them and hide them all over. I saw hundreds of dead deeds when I was running around that were just there wasting server space on a tiny server. (Pristine)

 

The excuse seems to be 'Well, Xanadu has plenty of space, so it won't matter.' except that it will...because there's already piles of dead deads already that people started for whatever reason...just wasting space along coasts as it is. There's people on here that just build deeds to use as 'my mining/tree farm/'I want it nature'/etc deed. I literally saw a whole island of a rather large size that someone had deeded up the whole place to 'Run my own kingdom'/'Leave it as nature.'...(Not to mention I later passed and saw at last count 17 caravels sitting there ON LAND....you can't tell me something scuzzy wasn't going on there...)

 

At least they did away with the enclosure rule so people can't keep claiming whole tracts of land by fencing them in...

 

I was greatly harassed early on by a alliance/group of the elitists who spent all their time badgering me (Who to this very day still go to nearly every unique kill on Xan server when they reside on Pristine...) and badmouthing me over something that happened as a noob where they thought they owned 50+ tiles from their deeds (I happened to setup in the 'dead zone' on a coast between their alliance deed and a max size deed of a guy who'd quit almost a year before which they apparently kept putting coin in for upkeep on...for almost 7 months.) and/or thought digging over their mine caused collapses...along with other stupid nonsense. I spent over a WEEK of my own RL time repairing something I did back to how it originally looked to 'mend fences' with one of those people...only to have one of their own alliance people do EXACTLY the same thing I did in the same spot. I got 'the last laugh' as it were in that situation.

 

Is this really the type of people you want to portray the game? No wonder it's stayed so 'niche'/obscure.

 

The people on here are really not very nice to newcomers...and then they wonder why so few stick around...

 

Traders are a symptom of the overall 'problem'.

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Mini deeds laid all over the servers that serve no other purpose than to supply a 'elite' few with more money 'recycled' out of the economy and lining their pockets...which they often turn around and use the excuse of 'Well, I shill a bit out to new folks for their hard labor...'

 

Why should these people have this kind of control over the game's economy/money flow?

 

Why do you think it's OK to basically put people into what amounts to slavery? Why is it even a 'joke' on this game? Slavery is not amusing. People's TIME is valuable, and you give them crumbs for it? 'Yay! Congratulations to you!'

 

This is what's outright disgusting about this game, and capitalism as a whole.

 

I always find it amusing how people like to sit around badmouthing 'Those people who didn't do any work and just want freebies.' and then don't actually reward hard work. The people who sit around just milking game mechanics like this for free money they did jack for...that has actual RL money value...that they turn around and re-sell on to 'make some money' in RL.

 

That's the 'consequences' that nobody seems to want to bring to light. (Or that will likely get my comment removed.)

 

Edit to add : I speak as someone who's been around for nearly 2 years, who has fought tooth and nail for every bit of coin he's earned in this game...via normal trading methods using forums/trading with neighbors/trading via chat. I worked my behind off and got the skills up there, and have been able to save a whopping 46s....from the 6s I bought when I started. (I have boats that if they'd sell are worth maybe another 40s...and that's if I lowball myself on my prices...and have a few other rares and other items that could sell off for another small chunk of silver...) Just remember, that the coin leaves with me if I leave...and is permanently removed. I'm 'rich' in TIME, and prefer to do most everything myself.

What slavery??? As long as someone is willing to work for "crumbs", then "crumbs" are being paid. If you buy something, item or service, you want to pay as little as possible? I am willing to bet, that your answer is "yes". It is perfectly OK, yet in Wurm it is for some people wrong. As long as there are people to provide service at the current prices, this is what they are.

Another question now. There have been no traders on Xanadu since its launch, how much different has it been compared to the servers that have had the traders?

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What slavery??? As long as someone is willing to work for "crumbs", then "crumbs" are being paid. If you buy something, item or service, you want to pay as little as possible? I am willing to bet, that your answer is "yes". It is perfectly OK, yet in Wurm it is for some people wrong. As long as there are people to provide service at the current prices, this is what they are.

Another question now. There have been no traders on Xanadu since its launch, how much different has it been compared to the servers that have had the traders?

 

People on here have this 'running joke' that they get people to do slave work for them. (Basically, the stuff they don't want to do anymore/find too taxing.) They often try and joke it off as 'I just make alts for that instead...' and titter behind their hands over it.

 

Slavery is not a laughing matter. Real people were harmed, and many people died trying to stop it.

 

Refusing to pay someone the value of their time is tantamount to slavery. In real life, this is being seen as the refusal to even pay a living wage (What someone requires/needs to actually 'survive'.) or paying them 'just enough' to not get 'ahead' in any meaningful way, so they are forced to always run on the 'treadmill' of 'work'.

 

People have been sold a bill of sales in this way for years, and there is so much propaganda over it, and whole groups of 'priviledged' people.

 

In this game, those 'priviledged' people, are the ones who 'bought in' to these faucets and used poor game mechanics against the devs to keep a monopoly on certain things. (Or tried to.) The devs have been slowly trying to take those things away...(By removing traders, allowing uniques to respawn, the rare coins from stuff, things of that nature...)

 

To answer your last question, it's been much improved IMO...the biggest problem we are seeing for trading now is that because of the massive distances on Xanadu, it takes hours of travel, so many people are just not doing the trades that they otherwise would have unless it's something that can be mailed (Semi-instant, half hour or so to show up.), or a 'bulk' load which can take hours of sailing to be brought and actually has value, which requires both parties to play 'cat/mouse' games trying to hook up with eachother to pay/deliver. (I had a semi good couple weeks where I was able to sell 4 wagons, a 50 QL plate set, and 10 large crates...a few weeks back...)

 

I'm not sure where Rolf should move those specific items that only traders sell/which are semi rare...but from what I hear (Possible hearsay here), they basically made the traders now 'leech off eachother locally'...so basically if you have a trader now...it still pulls in decent amounts if you're in a active area...because it's basically leeching from the upkeeps of all the nearby deeds + activity in the area (Possibly the amount of people that interact with it?)...which is why the trader huts in the middle of nowhere aren't paying off anymore...but the folks who are still in active areas are just basically hoovering up money from their neighbors. Money they didn't really 'earn', except by spamming out a few high value items and selling them to them for the coin. (And 'maintaining the ratio' or whatever it's called on them.) Neither of which takes much 'effort' on their part.

 

How does that benefit the game?

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no they are separate.. well say the pools is split up so 20% is sell, 20% is traders, 20% rare coins..etc  (the % is a made up number but that is how i understand it to be)  

 

Using the economic advisor title on Epic, in the past I checked when people would get rare coins from hunting and it took it from the kings coffers that goes to traders, so unless something is bugged or whatever, it takes money from traders

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People on here have this 'running joke' that they get people to do slave work for them. (Basically, the stuff they don't want to do anymore/find too taxing.) They often try and joke it off as 'I just make alts for that instead...' and titter behind their hands over it.

 

Slavery is not a laughing matter. Real people were harmed, and many people died trying to stop it.

 

Refusing to pay someone the value of their time is tantamount to slavery. In real life, this is being seen as the refusal to even pay a living wage (What someone requires/needs to actually 'survive'.) or paying them 'just enough' to not get 'ahead' in any meaningful way, so they are forced to always run on the 'treadmill' of 'work'.

Oh come on! You are seriously comparing real world slavery with the game, where people VOLUNTARILY make deals(yes the terms are agreed even before the deal has been made).

People have been sold a bill of sales in this way for years, and there is so much propaganda over it, and whole groups of 'priviledged' people.

 

In this game, those 'priviledged' people, are the ones who 'bought in' to these faucets and used poor game mechanics against the devs to keep a monopoly on certain things. (Or tried to.) The devs have been slowly trying to take those things away...(By removing traders, allowing uniques to respawn, the rare coins from stuff, things of that nature...)

With this part I actually agree with you, giving certain players monopoly over things is not good. But traders aren't part of it really because everyone can get a trader.

To answer your last question, it's been much improved IMO...the biggest problem we are seeing for trading now is that because of the massive distances on Xanadu, it takes hours of travel, so many people are just not doing the trades that they otherwise would have unless it's something that can be mailed (Semi-instant, half hour or so to show up.), or a 'bulk' load which can take hours of sailing to be brought and actually has value, which requires both parties to play 'cat/mouse' games trying to hook up with eachother to pay/deliver. (I had a semi good couple weeks where I was able to sell 4 wagons, a 50 QL plate set, and 10 large crates...a few weeks back...)

I don't see the connection between not having traders on Xana. Whether or not there are traders on Xana, your week would've been no different.

I'm not sure where Rolf should move those specific items that only traders sell/which are semi rare...but from what I hear (Possible hearsay here), they basically made the traders now 'leech off eachother locally'...so basically if you have a trader now...it still pulls in decent amounts if you're in a active area...because it's basically leeching from the upkeeps of all the nearby deeds + activity in the area (Possibly the amount of people that interact with it?)...which is why the trader huts in the middle of nowhere aren't paying off anymore...but the folks who are still in active areas are just basically hoovering up money from their neighbors. Money they didn't really 'earn', except by spamming out a few high value items and selling them to them for the coin. (And 'maintaining the ratio' or whatever it's called on them.) Neither of which takes much 'effort' on their part.

 

How does that benefit the game?

Well, all crafting in Wurm works like that, crafter spams out high value items and sells them for coin, doesn't matter whom you sell to .. players or traders(only the items what someone values differ).

Edited by rixk

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My character Geode is mayor of my deed but is not premium (exchange rate did not allow for premium and restarting deeds costs at same time for me), and I did not get the poll. Was going to go premium in July now that I spent money on deed in May and June and paid up maintenance for months to come. ( I won't spend more than $15 US per month on a game). I guess my timing is bad, as usual lol.


Edited by geode

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The distance limitation needs to be removed or it's gonna be deedlet hell on Xanadu, as I said on the other town square thread about traders.


 


Having a %"#$%load of trader deeds disband on Release did marvels.


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Oh come on! You are seriously comparing real world slavery with the game, where people VOLUNTARILY make deals(yes the terms are agreed even before the deal has been made).

 

Reductio ad ridiculum. You're mocking something because you don't see the connection, and are appealing to others to attempt to ridicule it. This happens rather often on this game also. The much vaunted 'community'.

 

 

But traders aren't part of it really because everyone can get a trader.

 

Everyone who pays for one. Once again, setting a bar that has to be met to be a part of the 'clique'.

 

 

Whether or not there are traders on Xana, your week would've been no different.

 

My week would've been a lot different...if traders were allowed I wouldn't be here any longer and they would lose the steady funding I have provided in the form of regular premium time bought (I buy it with my money in RL directly from the game shop, not coins in the game.)...I'd be off playing some other game with mechanics that weren't blatantly full of holes like this.

 

 

Well, all crafting in Wurm works like that, crafter spams out high value items and sells them for coin, doesn't matter whom you sell to .. players or traders(only the items what someone values differ).

 

So you're OK with the people who sit around insulting people about being leeches, leeching...and the hypocrisy that comes from said behavior. Gotcha.

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