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Toecutter

Name and shame?

105 posts in this topic

Never forgive never forget should not be tolerated in this community.

 

When the roads and pits are put back to the way they were, I'll forgive and forget. Deal?

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When the roads and pits are put back to the way they were, I'll forgive and forget. Deal?

 

Hmmmmnaaaaaah way more than enough forgiving and forgetting is done by (and for) CC itself.

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theyd just come grief it.

And then we'd just box them inside 90ql stone walls and call it a night. :)

 

You know when the griefing will finally stop?

 

When good honest people stop 'fearing the ban' for taking out the trash. And not a moment before.

Edited by Belrindor
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When good honest people stop 'fearing the ban' for taking out the trash. And not a moment before.

 

Amen, brother.

 

Got 3/4's of my friends' list permanently offline, a handful spooked off by fiascoes such as playerauctions, the vast majority driven away by assmunches who are still around because CC was apparently afraid to hurt thieves'/griefers' feelings by something as brutal as basic consequences.

 

Way I see it a tipping point is being reached and one of three things has to happen:

1)  CodeClub gets its act together and starts giving offenders the iron fist that's currently reserved for people retaliating or complaining about the state of things.  Or....

2)  We handle those unsavory individuals ourselves, but in that case CodeClub needs to turn the same blind eye that's currently reserved for those who start the griefing.  Or....

3)  More people will keep quitting after being told to be nice to the local asshat, more people will keep quitting without even bothering to submit a ticket about it because "what's the point?", and then it'll get to a point when needing volunteer PR folks will be remembered as "good times" while threads requesting volunteer devs go up between explaining why Wurm's host was downgraded to a 386 in a flooded basement because it's all that could be afforded.

 

3) Is already happening and isn't showing signs of getting better, by the way.  Last year I used my birthday money on a rare knarr, this year I'm upgrading my GPU (which runs Wurm smoothly) so my PC is ready for switching to some newer game "next time CC pisses me off, enjoying it while it lasts for now".  

 

What cost Wurm these specific $200 or so?  Jabash (digging up perimeters thread), Bruhamoff (selling the knarrs in question right after being so-called "disciplined" while measures are being taken against the EVIL players trying to make a trade embargo stick on him), and others like Nephilim (when locks were popping off ships, robbed a friend's knarr, items were recovered except for the rare forge which in turn made 3 of my favorite wurmians quit) from past experiences who are still gleefully running amuck perpetuating the CodeClub-sanctioned asshattery.

 

By and by, many people who last year would constantly refer to themselves as "in Wurm for the long haul" are suddenly looking a lot at other games.

 

Started Wurm willing to chuck a healthy $100 a month in sub, deeds, and goodies, few weeks back I returned with my self-imposed limit tweaked down to $50.  Now I'm down to "sub+6s is all i need for my deeds" and truth be told, seriously considering another long break from Wurm with occasional visits to drain my trader and forage the missing silvers to pay upkeep.  See, thing is, the less I spend on Wurm, the more chances I have of enjoying it DESPITE CodeClub since the less I spend, the less heavy the all-too-frequent buyers' remorse hits.

 

Keep coddling the griefers, but assuming they're millionaires who'll gladly increase their spending by a few thousand dollars a month to help keep the game they're destroying alive is a biiiiig gamble that I wouldn't call a very sure thing.

 

Best part is, in the 6 or so months I was away, two players who drove BIG spenders away with their antics are now staff... heh.

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Anyhoo *lights a smoke and takes a deep breath* ... since simple logic isn't waking CodeClub up, maybe the financials will... then again, not expecting much at this point apart from maybe a new rule against raising more than one ticket a year against a person or some such nonsense.

 

You know Mord..... at this point we'd all better believe that when a NEW rule is created or an EXISTING rule is adjusted. The second said rule is involved in anything a GM will come around with a statement that pretty much renders the entire rule useless.

 

Same thing happen with Enki's " Your reputation " announcement. Basically confirming that there is no " Shame and name rule ".

 

And then Mikeyaya came around to pretty much wreck that rule to oblivion.

 

Now i do have to say i fully agreed with his decision forum-wise. But when i defended him for that in-game i got a nice little mute warning for it... A mute warning... from the GM i was defending in-game. Still got a headache of that mind twister hehe.

 

The entire reason why the whole Bruhamoff discussion flared up again and again in chat was that there'd always be someone with either completely wrong information or honestly asked what the fuss was about. You can easily imagine with so many people pissed about this that the discussion will keep going for a while. 

 

After all this i'm pretty much done with reporting griefing / scamming. Bruhamoff had griefed our alliance in the past and had gotten a First warning for that from a GM. Clearly that case was NOT catalogued as he got away with a Second warning this time. All i can say i've pretty much lost my faith in reporting anything to the staff besides actual game-breaking bugs.

 

Besides all that i don't see the point of even contacting GM's anymore. If anyone does see a point. Please let me know. I'd still want my faith in the staff back hehe.

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My "best" experience with GMs and griefers was, about 1.5 years ago, when I went to undo, what griefers had done in the neighborhood. The GM was called to stop me and the GM actually told me to stop what I was doing. After that of course the area in question was surrounded with the fence, to block fencing it in, we built a house in there, so it couldn't be closed and made it to an enclosure(enclosure rules were in place then). Again a GM was called by the griefers, who ordered to demolish the building, which was made to block the griefers actions. The players, who were griefed, were new players at the time.. one of them literally quit because of how the GMs protected the griefers.. and tbh I didn't have any arguments to convince him to stay.. I haven't experienced anything like it in any other game.


 


Of course after that I became the tärget too, then almost for two months it was basically mostly about .. log in, check what has been done around your village and call in GMs, who again did NOTHING.. Eventually Enki stepped in and after that it all calmed down. But it took almost 2 months for GMs to observe and "take notes"! Yes, after that I have lost all faith in the GMs.. luckily I haven't had to deal with them any more. But at least removing the name and shame rule was step in the right direction.


Edited by rixk

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In another thread our favorite scammer was quoted as saying famous or infamous, everyone would know he was here.


 


Don't think for a minute the little attention ho isn't loving all this (in)fame. He's feeding on it.


 


>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUF-Rqi1mbA


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My "best" experience with GMs and griefers was, about 1.5 years ago, when I went to undo, what griefers had done in the neighborhood. The GM was called to stop me and the GM actually told me to stop what I was doing. After that of course the area in question was surrounded with the fence, to block fencing it in, we built a house in there, so it couldn't be closed and made it to an enclosure(enclosure rules were in place then). Again a GM was called by the griefers, who ordered to demolish the building, which was made to block the griefers actions. The players, who were griefed, were new players at the time.. one of them literally quit because of how the GMs protected the griefers.. and tbh I didn't have any arguments to convince him to stay.. I haven't experienced anything like it in any other game.

 

Of course after that I became the tärget too, then almost for two months it was basically mostly about .. log in, check what has been done around your village and call in GMs, who again did NOTHING.. Eventually Enki stepped in and after that it all calmed down. But it took almost 2 months for GMs to observe and "take notes"! Yes, after that I have lost all faith in the GMs.. luckily I haven't had to deal with them any more. But at least removing the name and shame rule was step in the right direction.

Well going by GM  Mikeyyaya it's harassment  so what is it? i have been told a simple few words about a thief is not harassment  then GM Mikeyyaya says it is?  it's  crazy i have never played a game like this with so much uncertainly.

 

 

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This would not happen on PvP. They would go kill him, erase his deed, and be done.

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Or, come to Epic, have the door of your gatehouse picked, get shot through your window, your animals slaughtered, and the locks on your wagon and cart removed and replaced with high quality locks so you can't use them.

 

For now, I'll stick with the drama in Freedom, thanks.
 

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Or, come to Epic, have the door of your gatehouse picked, get shot through your window, your animals slaughtered, and the locks on your wagon and cart removed and replaced with high quality locks so you can't use them.

 

 

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wow guys

did that happen to you?

I been on epic off and on for years. never heard of anything remotely like that.

I have died twice while on the home servers. both times it wasn't a random thing, but that is another story.

Check it out, you will be glad that you did.

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Yep. That happened to me on Serenity. Raiders (The Epic word for sanctioned griefers) would land somewhere remote and cut a swath of destruction up the coast until enough people rallied to pursue them. The only hope for tiny players like me was to run to a friend's deed with better defenses or hide in your mine and hope they didn't see you on local. Also, make sure that your mine door was rock so they wouldn't find it easily and bash it.

 

I prefer living on my own and doing my own thing, but that's practically impossible on Epic. It was also essential that I join the large JK alliance so that I would know when raiders were about.

 

And no, this wasn't a one-off thing. I can remember "raiders" coming through on at least 3 different occasions over the course of 6 months doing basically the same sorts of things.

 

The last time I went and visited, I found my neighbor's place had his high stone walls bashed and his token drained of money.

 

I just didn't find any of that contributing to my enjoyment of the PvP server experience.
 

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This game has so much to offer that is utterly unique across the entire field of MMO gaming it simply confounds me when this topic is allowed to come up unresolved on such a regular basis. I won't bother making any suggestion to CC because they know what needs to be done to make it stop [invest in real consumer support] because it just ain't gunna happen in the foreseeable future.


 


What I will say is this; others are watching, others are planning and some have even begun coding. A few have not yet gone public enough to be noticed. If something epic does happen here soon this whole thing will come to an end.


 


I'll echo a previous poster by saying [for me] when something even remotely similar comes along I will check it out with the intent of diverting my financial support to a staff that refuses to support bad behavior. I seriously doubt mine is a unique opinion.


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Or, come to Epic, have the door of your gatehouse picked, get shot through your window, your animals slaughtered, and the locks on your wagon and cart removed and replaced with high quality locks so you can't use them.

 

For now, I'll stick with the drama in Freedom, thanks.

 

 

You freedomers always have the wildest stories about epic. It's like a bunch of old wives around a camp fire, each elaborating on the story of the previous.

 

Yep. That happened to me on Serenity. Raiders (The Epic word for sanctioned griefers) would land somewhere remote and cut a swath of destruction up the coast until enough people rallied to pursue them. The only hope for tiny players like me was to run to a friend's deed with better defenses or hide in your mine and hope they didn't see you on local. Also, make sure that your mine door was rock so they wouldn't find it easily and bash it.

 

I prefer living on my own and doing my own thing, but that's practically impossible on Epic. It was also essential that I join the large JK alliance so that I would know when raiders were about.

 

And no, this wasn't a one-off thing. I can remember "raiders" coming through on at least 3 different occasions over the course of 6 months doing basically the same sorts of things.

 

The last time I went and visited, I found my neighbor's place had his high stone walls bashed and his token drained of money.

 

I just didn't find any of that contributing to my enjoyment of the PvP server experience.

 

Raiding =/= Griefing. Knocking down everything is a pain and a huge waste of time.

As for living on your own and doing your own thing on epic, I've proven myself just how viable that is. The only raiding I've experienced personally is from other members of MR like sirjacksonhunz

Edited by Arronicus

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Raiding, the way I experienced it, was indeed griefing. It just happened to be sanctioned and promoted as a part of the PvP experience. I didn't expect any action on my behalf, and I didn't complain. I knew where I lived and what the risks were. There is no military benefit to doing those sorts of things to a lone farmer out on his own. It was done intentionally to cause harm and grief for their enjoyment. I still consider it griefing, just griefing that is sanctioned and encouraged.
 

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I don't think the Wurm Community is mature enough for an open name and shame policy.


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I don't think the Wurm Community is mature enough for an open name and shame policy.

 

No village, town, city, province, country, or civilization is ready for mob justice at first..... 

 

However when the authorities can't be relied on to provide the protection one has been raised to expect, mob justice happens.

 

Rather have an immature community forming lynching mobs against griefers and thieves than said community slowly shrinking because the only protection it truly has is taking its money elsewhere.

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Hopefully this will provide some clarity to the matter at hand.

Providing information to protect or warn others is valid and warranted. "Naming and shaming" is considered "witch hunting." Witch hunting is never more productive than harmful. When you name someone and their deeds in an attempt to protect others, you are being productive and positive. However, when you shame someone you are going beyond the point of being helpful and instead are seeking to punish the accused. By rallying others to a witch hunt you are causing disruption to the community and the atmosphere surrounding you. This is harmful to the enjoyment of the game.

We are not judges set forth to condemn and punish criminals. That role is left to the moderators to handle.

In summary we shouldn't name and shame anyone as it only causes trouble and grief. Do your part in making crimes knowledgeable for the protection of your peers. Leave the judgment and punishing to the moderators.

Edited by Slickshot

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Can't say that's worked particularly well thus far, Slickshot.


 


It's not like the community decided to suddenly witch hunt for poops n' giggles, there's plenty of accumulated frustration with staff's leniency toward those that truly harm the enjoyment of the game "4 lulz".


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Can't say that's worked particularly well thus far, Slickshot.

It's not like the community decided to suddenly witch hunt for poops n' giggles, there's plenty of accumulated frustration with staff's leniency toward those that truly harm the enjoyment of the game "4 lulz".

I agree that it's very frustrating, but it still isn't our place to drop to their level (the " bad" guys) and start a witch hunt. Overall such disdain and unlawful action leads to consequences; that goes for the criminal and the vigilante. Edited by Slickshot

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Yep. That happened to me on Serenity. Raiders (The Epic word for sanctioned griefers) would land somewhere remote and cut a swath of destruction up the coast until enough people rallied to pursue them. The only hope for tiny players like me was to run to a friend's deed with better defenses or hide in your mine and hope they didn't see you on local. Also, make sure that your mine door was rock so they wouldn't find it easily and bash it.

 

I prefer living on my own and doing my own thing, but that's practically impossible on Epic. It was also essential that I join the large JK alliance so that I would know when raiders were about.

 

And no, this wasn't a one-off thing. I can remember "raiders" coming through on at least 3 different occasions over the course of 6 months doing basically the same sorts of things.

 

The last time I went and visited, I found my neighbor's place had his high stone walls bashed and his token drained of money.

 

I just didn't find any of that contributing to my enjoyment of the PvP server experience.

 

 

where did you live then?  cause as I said I been living all over MR and just recently in JK and what you speak of, I Hardly see.  sure I have seen some BL's come to JKH and do some schuff, but it wasn't like they leveled deeds and stuff, the kills they got were peeps they caught off deed.  and in MR they would come, but unless you lived right on the side where BL comes in and you were out in a boat,  you were relatively safe. Though I do remember one other time BL guys caught me while I was in a boat in MR.  but then again I was in a boat headin for ele.  so. . .

 

 

My final suggestion to all that have these ghost stories of Epic.  come try it for a week, I bet ya change ya minds.

 

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I agree that it's very frustrating, but it still isn't our place to drop to their level (the " bad" guys) and start a witch hunt. Overall such disdain and unlawful action leads to consequences; that goes for the criminal and the vigilante.

 

Fixed it =D

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Fixed it =D

Negative actions will always have consequences, no matter who you are. Fact.

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