Blocking roads

[Amber 337]

As awesome as the community on Cele is it seems that even we have one bad apple in the bunch. A guy who's bound and determined to block anyone from traveling the old established routes near his deed. 

 

First he put up two gatehouses, with locked doors, on the highway at Freeport and tried to tell ppl that it was for the good of the "community". If you asked you could add him to your friends list and he'd put you on the writs so you could pass. I don't know this dude and I sure as hell didn't want him on my friends list where he'd have access to my ships and carts so I didn't like the sound of that! 

 

Then he said that he was going to block off the tunnel that runs from Elm Street, on Northmere Bay, to Freeport. (That's the tunnel that most ppl who live north of there use to get to TD by land.) That tunnel, to my knowledge, has always been open to the public.  

 

A GM is making him remove the two gatehouses so in a fit of childish rage he's now blocked off the tunnel and is building a shed on the only other reasonable route to TD. 

 

Basically now if you live north of that shed the only way to get to TD is to go up through the tunnel at Celtic Heights and then go east through Spiderwood Valley then south. 

 

I just spoke to a GM and was told that he's not breaking any rules with this behavior and I guess that's true. No rule against being a total ass although maybe there should be. 

 

In my opinion this guy is griefing everyone who lives north of him but no one is going to act on that. I guess I'll be looking into building a new road or tunnel to make traveling easier so if anyone has any ideas or wants to help let me know please. 

 

 

[Gnowai 15]

There is no rule against being a ###### alright. Funny thing about that though, is that it also counts for the people affected.

 

This will be fun.

[Nicrolis 980]

actually there is a rule against blocking highways.

A/ It is illegal to block, terraform, alter or destroy any highways.( Application to conduct any of these activities may be sent to /support for approval by a Game Master)

As for buildings on highways:

( Buildings on highways are not approved for the time being.  There are instances of people becoming injured, trapped, or killed, and losing horses when traveling through buildings while embarked.  Existing structures will remain, please be aware of these issues if you come to any of them. )

 

Course if any of the roads are just 1x1 with no sand on the borders, then they arent a highway and don't count. Tunnels imo should be considered highways, but it's a grey zone with GMs sadly.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Nicrolis

[Amber 337]

The problem is that Cele has almost no highways according to the legal definition. The road where he built the two gatehouses is two lanes wide and because of that I think the GM's ruled that he'd have to take them down. But, a bit farther east, on the same road, where he built the second little shed to block the road it's only one lane wide so the GM's can't stop him. 

 

At the moment he's removed the shed he was building on the one lane part of the road but he seems to have some other plan for blocking travel. I guess we'll see what happens next. 

 

The bottom line is that because of one dude we'll have to widen existing roads or build new ones and make sure that they are legal highways. I for one am not anxious to spend all the time and effort that would take when the highway rule staying in the game is still up in the air. 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Amber

[Gnowai 15]

You don't block a road used by many for a long time that is basically the only decent connection between the area they live in and a large part of the rest of the server, no matter if it is 1 tile wide or 15.

 

And yes, there was some sort of an unwritten agreement to keep the roads modest on Cele, technically worth nothing maybe, but before someone tries to imply that we should have made a highway, this is the reason we didn't.

[Merolack 6]

hello , a thousand apologies that you had to see what i have had to deal with....firstly i am co creator of elm tunnel, along with my former mayor as well as freddy krueger etc... it has been destroyed in the xan rush so i closed it and plan to drop it asap ...i helped build it for months and am the last deed owner attached to it, my apologies but that is the way it goes....secondly i have been advised by 2 gm's now to cut the non protected access roads as well  as have spent 10-13 days building a bypass that was better paved and well lit....i refuse to cut all access as i do not deem it fair even tho i was advised i can....i have just recently done a walk thru inspection with gm enki as to what needs done to bring the bypass to code, and allow me to close my deed off from those who keep bashing offdeed fences to kill my wild pets/steal cows/boats etc...i do not cut a single tree that i do not replant to to replace,  and as the gm's and rules state am not required to provide access...i choose to , i have spent 7 months enjoying this game and helping others...to see such malicious garbage while saddening , is a part of life....fortunately gm's are here to deal with such people so i do not need to....the retrofit pre resubmitting is in the works and as always i heartily invite anyone near newhaven to come over and see the differences between the 2 ...sadly i lost the stables in a land grab when the price dropped but i will make it work....other examples of public work include my part in the elm street tunnel (500+ supports as well as lighting (sadly closed atm) the road built with killroth of newhaven to allow easier access to spiderwood valley as well as eastern outpost (both sadly disbanded) and even the large groves of trees that job and i planted for days where my antagonist , and also my friends further north now reside...i hope to continue to be able to contribute to cele in my direct and outlying arreas for years to come.

 

 

 

sincerely ,

merolack poisonblade

 

harbormaster, freeport

[Catullus 91]

FYI: The Highlands tunnel appears to be working fine.  As you come south out of the tunnel at Castrum Felis there is a sign for TD and New Haven.  Unfortunately, the sign is pointing east instead of west.  If you go east, you will quickly arrive at Freeport, Azelia, Port Sugar, and New Haven.

[KunAlt 844]

I use that tunnel and road to get form my deed to TDM where my merchant is.

 

That said, is really annoying to see wen things like this happens, the road where you drooped those gatehouses is probably one of the oldest roads in the server, and existed by years, so is not like someone have made a road to block or grief you, the road was there wen you decided to make your deed by it side.

 

The one tile path going up from the 2 tile road, have gravel on at least one side iirc, so I found a bit weird it is not considered a highway. Anyway idk how this situation will come to an end, but while you probably can legally block us from get to TD, it is a very rude thing to do.

 

It is sad that in a server with so few people on, you decided to f. us for no reason, True, north east population is nor high, but yet we are part of the community, and cutting us form the only remaining functional market just because you feel entitled to do so is not nice. I´ve used that tunnel lately, and while it is a nice shortcut I have no problem with you closing it as long as the original road remains open, you know, that one Garit made wen server was first opened and served the NE community for many years.

[Lolly1 206]

Deciding to withdraw my statements to save my brain the headache.

Good luck... 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Lolly1

[Merolack 6]

seriously i do find it rather appalling that a bypass safely away from where i used to keep animals, could even be an issue as tile for tile the distance is the same...i spent 10 days building and measuring it, and will likely spend another 3-5 bringing it to specs as provided by gm Enki (sp) i even took the time to light it and clear lots space for anyone of low skills who wanted build space... i provided a newer better system before i went to close access to my area...nobody helped me , i did not whine that ". I for one am not anxious to spend all the time and effort that would take when the highway rule staying in the game is still up in the air. ".  .i did the proper thing and when i crossed a line with a GM i immediately remedied my actions..i did not argue when i  was told to remove the lesser roads (a mild inconvenience to travelers at best). and when  i realized the advice of a gm i was blindly following, was not in the better interests of others (as i was verbally accosted even by those who prior had  given tacit approval and briefly even befriended me ) i stopped and remedied it. i also brought in a gm based on the threats i received and was given the caveats for this bypass of which i have been working on for 5 + hours since.(btw i have pulled all lighting and water pending gm approval of said status and allowance of me to remove a strip past my deed).. now until this time i have been in great standing with everyone i have interacted with, i have never had drama or issues even when i walked up and watched ppl killing my taming pets, steal my mounts, steal boats from my harbor....my decision to close my deed is entirely at the discretion of gm's unless somebody would care to start paying my sub. due to recent affiliations i am extending every possible courtesy to someone who's only words to me ever, were that i did not need to live on cele. I have never gone to anyone's  deed and aspired to tell them how to run it but it seems to be a popular thing, So if anyone would actually care to come see  this foul and dreadful thing i have aspired to, and perchance have some form of constructive criticism or really give me a coronary and offer assistance i will be overjoyed. I would  love to give tours of how many connections there are from celtic to tdm, newhaven etc... for anyone who has not the ability to find them themselves, but i would prefer to finish this bypass of which not a single person commenting save catullus has even looked at .And in closing i offer this if you are on after 1:00 p.m. pst  and would fancy a walk through as Said gm received i will be happy to put aside my efforts to build and preserve better roads long enough for you to see it as well. The saddest part was the only reason i kept jobian coast and redeeded it instead of following my village, was for members who were left behind, and to preserve what was once a beautiful village..the elm street tunnel that i helped create, and sadly every time i have turned around ppl were stealing or trying to cut off water access, or trying to destroy elm street tunnel strip mining it pre xan...job and i spent days working projects like that or reforesting large empty areas for future players...but yeah I am the bad guy... sadly the amount of "community" players that think beyond their own uberness, the people i would aspire to be as good as, like eave, sugar and cat, and job are the real decline on cele...even Killroth who for some reason seems to be despised helped me make a road to spiderwood where ftoz now lives with no thought of personal gain...and please before i ever hear "and yes, there was some sort of an unwritten agreement to keep the roads modest on Cele" ever again please build a boat (i can lend you one as needed) and lets go look at just the checkerboard highways crisscrossing cele..let us wander through Nh, old TD,  Northstar, and the 4 tile highway east of TD let us bask in the glory of the greatness  that still stands.....I am willing to do my part to make my area a better place for new players...take the 5 minutes of my life i wasted reading replies, to post anything you have done to make your area better , easier to settle, how many of your mines you opened to locals on a no questions asked basis....because i would like to spend my time posting kudos to ppl who deserve them, not defending my actions from self proclaimed uber ppl who are inconvenienced by making a turn on one side of the area i am building a microclime in instead of the other side.

[Eave 0]

     I'm ashamed of those of you who would attack Merolack like this. Mero has been a fine member of Cele and has welcomed everyone into the area without turning anyone away. Before even considering defending his deed from the threats of random and careless passerbye's, he created an alternate route for everyone to use. Those who weren't too lazy to check for themselves or quick to jump on the forums to complain that their access had been "cut off" from TD, would have easily found a well constructed and thoughfully built go-around or been escorted personally by Merolack himself.
      Amber, you talk about what a great community Cele has but hardly have I seen you do much to work out your problems before throwing a mild to all-out tempertantrum. When, the first time in weeks since we've settled in RCS, you didn't have the decency to ask if the trail leading down the mountain was still intact, you automatically assumed we'd seflishly cut it off. The truth being? The road had already been mostly destroyed by the time we had arrived and we had the decency to build our horse pen specifically so it wouldn't cut off access. Honestly what I think you should do? Is take a moment to explore your surroundings and appreciate what other gamers try to do in a neighborly fashion before going half-cocked on people.
     And Kuntur, Merolack has not- by any means- tried to block people from TD. There are at least four alternative routes to get there and back. He is merely trying to protect what is his from those who would mean to wreck it and before even doing so, he made sure to provide a suitable bypass so that, if any inconvience, it would in the slightest. He put more work into that bypass than he did his own gatehouses.

 

I understand that we can get comfortable in the way we game and we can come to expect that things remain as we left them, but the truth is, change is inevitable and we should be focusing our efforts into making Cele a better place by accepting that which we cannot change and finding acceptable solutions that everyone can find accomadable, even if it may be temporarily difficult.

Finally, I won't apologize for if what other players build may inconvience you slightly because this is sandbox game afterall, and one I pay to enjoy. Just like myself and Cable, Merolack works hard to be a friendly and considerate member of our server and we all could stand to be a little more like him.

 

Sincerely,

Eave

[enoofu 206]

I lived right next to Merolack for a few months until Xana and he is a pretty nice dude, he also had quite a few new players on his deed and they would get robbed a few times a week usually horses, or carts

 

 

[Gnowai 15]

The roadblock incident, the complete story from Hobo's view:

 

Couple of days ago, I logged on and got told that someone blocked the NE desert to TapDance route with gatehouses.

I jumped on my horse to go and find out what was going on.

 

Arriving at Freeport through the Elm Tunnel (both Job and Freddy had pointed out to me that that tunnel was intended for public use btw) I see that, indeed, the road has been blocked with two gatehouses on either side of Freeport, making it impossible to use the Elm tunnel to get to TD.

 

Talked to Merolack about it and he pointed out that he had been griefed in that area lately and that he built them to keep both the tunnel and his offdeed pets safe.

He also said he didn't intend to block anyone that relied on that tunnel and that they could ask him to get added to the gatehouses. He added me to the gatehouses and also pointed me to the bypass for the road he had made.

 

That bypass was an option I personally could live with, as I could still get from my deed to TD if I used it.

The bypass however didn't work for the Elm tunnel route, taking that route would still have you end up between the gatehouses and unless you had been given access to those, you would be blocked there.  

 

Went back to my area and told the people there about what I had found out and that if they wanted access to the gatehouses, they could ask Merolack for access. Far from ideal, but it was something at least.

 

The reactions to that story were mixed, ranging from ones similar to mine, to "oh hell no" and anything in between. And they all had a point imo.

 

Fast forward to yesterday.

We went to TDM to join a sermon that was going on. I was driving the cart and since I had access to the gatehouses, I took the tunnel. Arriving in Freeport I noticed a GM sign stating the gatehouses would be removed. Thought that was good news for the people using the tunnel and bad news for Merolack, not much more.

 

Coming back from the sermon, heading towards my own deed and thus taking the Highlands tunnel route, we ran into Merolack building a shed with the intention to block that route. The name of the shed made clear that that part would be blocked off from public access. The main route between my deed and the TD area, but not used by just me, there are more people depending on that route.  

I blew a fuse right then and there and told Merolack in pretty strong wording, that if he didn't remove that shed, I would.

 

Realised later that ofcourse I couldn't, but there are more ways to skin a cat and I was going to do just that.

Merolack said he wouldn't and that a GM apparently had approved it all.

While "approved" might not have been the exact meaning of the GM, we got told that technically, there was nothing that could be done about it.

 

And that leads us to this thread....

Edited July 21, 2014 by Gnowai

[Leroy 315]

after reading this I am brought to one thing I noticed after being gone for a month (xanadu).

while hunting around (new haven villager) the old area I didn't have much trouble roaming around, aside from a thick forest where fields used to be 0_o . I must venture by land tonight to the north side of the bay to search for a sailboat (yalmaha, if you know where it is please PM me as I misplaced it again). I will be mindful of the roads and tunnels and see how they are. highlands tunnel I know of as well as the tunnel on Jobs old deed. I wonder what the changes were.

on a side note of my discovery, the region NE of TD, since the topic is of individuals blocking access, I was very lost in a maze of hedge rows and odd shaped fence lines all through that area that caused myself to wander an hour looking for an exit to return to new haven and log out for the night. Either the owners need a new hobby aside from fence building, and hedging or some repairs and signs are badly needed.

I will remember a sickle this time, as none of my problem hedges were in deed or even perimeter lands.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Leroy

[Gnowai 15]

And no Eave, that road was perfectly fine and had been untill you decided to slap your deed onto there without taking into consideration that people might have been using that trail for ages as their main way to get around.

[KunAlt 844]

Afaik Eave from my deed to TD used to be at first wen I settled only one route, was a tunnel leading aprox from where the goat walks start, and ending where you dropped your deed.

 

That tunnel at some point was destroyed by someone first making shafts and in the end the entrance was collapsed and the tile was mined down making it imposible to be reopened.

 

Thankfully about at the same time of the destruction (probably a bit before), a 2 tiles path was made from Celtic highlands leading down to the coast, so that was then the only functional road.

 

Then the Goat walk was constructed almost using the same route as the old tunnel, but with the small disadvantage that was only doable with carts or riding because the slope.

 

Then the tunnel between Elm and Freeport was made.

 

Now the goat walk was destroyed, the tunnel is said to be closed, and the highway going in the side of Freeport is closed.

 

IDK what are the 4 alternative roads you mention, and btw all 3 roads (now destroyed goats walk, way around CH and tunnel ES-F)share the highway in the side of Freeport, so you close the Freeport highway you close the 3 roads.

 

And lets not start with the access to old Ebhon mines west of my deed that was open to public use and is now impossible to reach with carts...

[Lucas 66]

[enoofu 206]

Believe at one point around 2-3 months ago a few people (Freddy) was working on a coastal road that follows the elm tunnel

[Amber 337]

As of early this morning the tunnel is open and all sheds have been removed from the road so the route by Freeport is like it was before all this started. I don't have a clue why it's open or what Merolack has planned next but I'm not trusting that he's done  I hope it's over though. 

 

Before I go any farther with the road situation I want to say that if you want to insult me I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd have the stones to just spit it out rather than hiding some passive aggressive slam in the middle of a page of incomprehensible ramblings. If you think I'm "uber" because I do have the nerve to call people out for their bad behavior then I'm guilty as charged. 

 

Now to the facts. Merolacks deed does not even cross the road in question but rather is along one side of it. The area he's trying to block off is NOT owned by him and extends well beyond where his deed actually is. He's just trying to stop anyone from passing by his deed apparently. 

 

I can't find anyone who was even aware that Merolack was having a problem with stealing or griefers in that area. Perhaps, rather than being proud of himself for not "whining" he should have made the community, or at least his alliance, aware that he was having a problem. I, for one, would have been glad to help him try to secure both the tunnel and his animals with reinforcements and high quality fences if I'd known.  I'm sure others would have been happy to help as well if they'd been asked but they weren't. 

 

That being said the enclosure rule is no more and keeping any animals in off deed pens is a gamble at best. Items being stolen on deed by anyone other than villagers is not possible unless your settings allow it. So, I'd say the first thing Merolack needs to do is to look into his own actions, or in actions, before he decides to do something that has a negative impact on players who had nothing to do with his problems. 

 

As to the tunnel; my understanding is that it was built and used as a public tunnel to allow easier access from one side of that mountain to the other. It's construction was a group effort. It's not a private mine so I fail to see what relevance your comparison to peoples private mines has in this situation. Frankly I'm surprised that the tunnel is not a heritage site and perhaps that would be the best way to protect it. 

 

Merolack it's obvious that English isn't your first language so I'm trying to make some allowances for that but your insistence that a GM told you to block the one lane road is just dead wrong. Someone telling you that an action is not specifically against the rules is NOT the same thing as them telling you to do it.

 

[18:10:58] <Merolack> it is not a protected highway and vespers advised me to remove it

[18:11:14] <Merolack> i chose to keep it

[18:11:44] <Ambersummers> Well all I can say is that he doesn't have to live on this server.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that the "he" I was referring to was Vesper and not you. I was being sarcastic because I didn't believe for a nano second that he'd told you to block or remove that road and even if he did HE isn't the one who'd have to live with the consequences. YOU are. You need to learn to listen. 

 

 

Eave I find it hard to believe that you are naive enough to not see how you blocking the shorter path from the desert up the mountain hasn't played a part in this mess. The road you've blocked is the route I usually take to TD rather than the Freeport tunnel. 

 

That road was totally intact with the exception of the pavement on one tile when you decided to deed over it. If by "we had the decency to build our horse pen specifically so it wouldn't cut off access" you mean that you deeded over the road, removed the paving, built a fence over it and as chance would have it it's still possible to work your way through the woods around your fence then yeah, you did good work. Not cutting off access would involve flattening tiles, packing and paving them around your fence, in short replacing the road, not just expecting people to have to run through the woods to get around your deed. 

 

Yes, I called you out for destroying the road as soon as I saw it. I'm good that way. And even though it bothered me greatly I was willing to live with having a chunk of the road missing there after you assured me that you would not block it off completely. So, imagine how thrilled I was to find that two weeks later you've blocked the road near base of the mountain so that you can try to build a tunnel. I suppose there was no other place on that whole mountain for you to put the entrance? Like maybe one tile off to either side of the road? No, apparently it had to go ON the road.   

 

Was I happy about it? Hell no. What did Hobo and I do? Volunteered to help you mine out the iron vein you'd hit so that you can finish the tunnel. Yeah, I'm a horrid person. 

 

Btw Eave, have you ever made a tunnel? Do you have any clue how long it's going to take one or two people to finish that project? Did you give one moments consideration to the fact that you'd have that route blocked for that length of time or was the whole tunnel thing just a ploy to block access there without ticking people off right away? Excuse me but I find it unlikely that if you were sincere about making a public tunnel there that you wouldn't ask the people who live right next to it to help or at least tell them what you were planning before you started on it.  I assure you that you are no more ashamed of me than I am of you. 

[Ruger 610]

Im running out of popcorn. Can I take a pinch of yours Lucas? This is good.

[Seara 686]

GM's do not advise players to remove roads. 

 

A question was asked about if a cobble stone road with a gavel boarder would be a highway under the rules, and I expressed my opinion that it was not. 

 

That is all that was said.

[Lolly1 206]

Popcorn? forget that.. I might need a few alcoholic beverages for this ...

[RockyBalboa 565]

one word for that guy.... bAN    if he block one of highways i build in past....  i will be mad ,mad mad... 

[Lolly1 206]

one word for that guy.... bAN    if he block one of highways i build in past....  i will be mad ,mad mad... 

 

Is that for real? Get over yourself. 

Alcoholic beverage count = 3 and counting. 

[eyerobot 202]

This is why i built Celtic Highlands with four way road access, And maintained that tunnel even after job built his tunnel.  I never liked the idea that it ran right through the area they claimed, Even though it wasn't deeded. And as for them being the builders of that tunnel, they can't take full credit. Garis was the original person that dug that mine. They only added to it, And called it a tunnel.  As for the Celtic Highlands tunnel, It was built with the intentions of being a completely public road. And should remain that way. As well as the three way intersection in front of Celtic Highlands. And the bypass road around it.  All Public!

 

With the lack of space on Celeb for good roads, It's just not possible to do a two lane road in a lot of places. And it's impossible to open a two tile wide tunnel as well. So certain roads will have to be deemed public roads, Or this stupidity is never going to end.