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    the coziest safe mine of all time

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  1. don't even need to look at WU for that, its all in the cooking manual released alongside the update.
  2. i would consider 35-40% extra fatigue used for a top of the line character on very fast actions quite a lot actually.
  3. Now i was actually thinking about posting this on the suggestion forums but since we already do have a discussion going on about the fatigue system as a whole in this thread i might aswell just post it here, and possibly do a smaller post in the suggestion forums later. So first off for everyone who's not really familiar with the system and claims stuff like "even after playing for 18 hours straight i havent gotten to that point. it's actually impossible to reach it and if you do then you must be macroing or doing something complerely wrong" or something similar to this. The fatigue system is a system that has a specific timer that can be anywhere between 0 seconds and 12 hours and counts down from 12 hours. one hour of fatigue is restored every three hours of real time. this timer is reduced only by actual ingame action timers. so if you mainly watch a movie or show while semi-afk playing wurm with rather fast actions, such as imping, digging, creating, speed mining or similar with a limited action queue, you're unlikely to reach it. this however changes if you swap this around and mainly play wurm while watching tv in the background. now if you're also someone who cares about efficiency and getting the most out of your time, you will try to have as little idle time in the game as possible. this is of course a lot easier with very slow actions like grinding mining, but it is also possible with shorter actions. sure, it still requires you to reach over 8 hours of ingame time per day to actually run completely out of fatigue but the free time you have or the ways you play wurm differ from person to person. some people can do it while working, some do not work due to health issues, and some also change the skills they grind depending on circumstances. the rules do allow us certain freedom on longer actions after all. (please read for reference and, in case of questions, try to contact the GMs or other staff who will most likely go out of their way to explain specific rules to you. do not try to act first and use "but this guy on forums said i would be allowed to" as an excuse after something bad happens. you, and only you, are responsible for your account) However, there's two main problems this system brings in its current state. The first is the insane inconsistency of the system. What do i mean by inconsistency? Well, first, let's take a look at all the fatigue using actions compared to those that do not actually require fatigue. (please note that these actions were taken from WU, they might not be 100% correct in WO but from experience and some testing about the weirder sounding ones i can claim that these are pretty accurate for actions actually available to players) Using fatigue: not using fatigue: First category: crafting. As we can see, basically all crafting related actions are fatigue actions. This includes creating items, improving items, repairing items. Second category: terraforming / resource gathering. The same for these, all fatigue related. digging, mining, tunneling, packing, cultivating, farming related activities and similar. Third category: building. Again, these are all fatigue related actions. building fences, walls, floors as well as repairing them. Fourth category: combat. Any and all combat related actions, both meele combat as well as archery, are non-fatigue actions. Fifth category: priest actions. The only priest related skill that actually uses fatigue is praying. Other than that, be it sacrificing or actually casting spells, they do not require any fatigue and will not lower it. Sixth category: siege mechanics. Using war machines does not require any fatigue either, no matter the machine. same goes for destroying walls, fences, floors by bashing. Seventh category: instantanous actions. These make up pretty much the remaining non-fatigue action list. It contains a variety of actions that you use every day. since they don't have an actual action timer it wouldn't make sense for these to use fatigue, so i will be paying little attention to this category further on. So out of seven, or rather six, different action categories we have three, which most people would probably refer to as PvE/Crafting actions, that are bound to fatigue. Yet on the other hand we have three which are not bound to fatigue. However, there are still some very weird things which do not fit into any of these categories so i will be listing them here. Butchering - you can actually butcher animals for meat even without fatigue. yet you can not fillet meat without fatigue or acquire fish, which i would consider another kind of meat, without fatigue. paving - packing tiles requires fatigue but paving a tile does not. you could cover a whole server in gravel without having to care about fatigue at all, as long as the whole server would consist of packed dirt. grooming - both grooming and shearing sheep work for grinding animal husbandry. yet how come grooming does not require fatigue while shearing sheep does? These weird cases do show quite a bit of inconsistency in the system, at least to me. The second problem i see with the system is that it is outdated. However, i will come back to this in a bit. Next, let's talk about the GOALS of the fatigue system. During my last inquiry if a suggestion about certain changes to the fatigue system would even have a chance i was told that "it works in its current format. It achieves the goals it sets out to do, people just disagree on those goals". So, what even IS the actual goal of the fatigue system. So far i've heard about two main things, but im not sure either of these has ever been official, or if it was it is probably long lost. 1. fatigue is meant as an anti-macro system. 2. it is used to prevent "nolifers" from getting too far ahead of the crowd. And after looking at the differences between the categories of things that actually require fatigue i have come up with a third theory: 3. fatigue was meant to promote pvp. Now let's look at each of these theories a bit closer. The first theory, that fatigue is an anti-macro system. Now this i think is quite plausible. After all it prevents someone from spamming the same actions over and over again for hours, days or even weeks. However, this is also the first theory where i come back to the problem of the fatigue system being outdated. I'm pretty certain that there are more things in the background than just the fatigue system, and i certainly also do hope so. However, a cheat prevention system should not go as far as actually impacting gameplay for human players in a big way, and im pretty sure people will agree with me here. Second theory. It might be a possibility, but if that is one of the actual goals i also have to say that it is outdated. The game has been running for quite a few years and if that might have been working in the past, nowadays it only serves to open up an unbridgable gap between old and new players. They both can spend the same time in the game Third theory. Combat, archery, priest spells and siege weapons do not require fatigue. However, would this be a viable theory just because of that? i'm not too sure considering that you can not mine ammunition or dig down dirtwalls without fatigue and stealthing also actually does require fatigue. Also, the priest spells were not split into pve and pvp spells, or rather offensive and supportive spells. This might have been an oversight, or it might just not be the actual goal we are looking for. However, all of these are after all just THEORIES. So take them with a grain of salt. Now let's instead see if theres any actual problems or advantages that can come from any of these aspects. -One of the first and biggest problems i see is that, if the main purpose is actually to hinder macroing, why do priests require absolute no fatigue for any of their priest-only actions? as long as they would have enough sacrifice materials they could keep going all day, every day. i could understand if the spells would have been split into pve and pvp spells here, where offensive spells do not require fatigue to prevent bad accidents in actual pvp battles, yet pve spells would require fatigue. However, this obviously didnt happen. - Priest-Fighters following specific gods having quite an advantage is another thing i'd like to point out. currently, due to neither combat nor priest activities needing fatigue you can spend all day casting "wisdom of vynora" on yourself and burning down all your fatigue, effectively giving you completely free SB that any person who actually needs said fatigue to keep going can not get. - Priest is often better suited for long grinds of non-improve skills. Due to the reason that after their characteristic nerf has been removed and if you really stick to one grind, you still have the possibility to either cast spells when you run out of fatigue or use their deity-specific bonuses for hunting or others, or burn through your remaining fatigue with "wisdom of vynora" for more efficient fatigue usage and free sb, as long as their priest penalties do not forbid the skill you actually want to grind. So far, so good. However, we are after all asking for the fatigue system to be review and changed in some ways to not hinder those of us who currently are affected by its current state. For this i currently see three easy possibilities to still make use of the current system. Two of which are rather extremes and need a longer time to actually be implemented and one that would probably be a lot faster to bring into the game but have less of an impact too. First, the negative extreme. Change ALL non-instantanous actions to require fatigue. For combat-related actions, have the game substract the time spent in actual combat from the fatigue, for archery the shooting timer along with a slight bonus due to not having to ride up to the enemy, for priests the time they actually spend casting, for siege machinery the time spent using it, be it winching or swinging the ram. BUT THIS SOUNDS CRAZY! yes, it certainly does. however, sometimes consistency comes at a price. currently people claim that it's impossible to even reach the fatigue time. well, i am hopeful that this kind of change would bring more people to support changes to the fatigue system, not in such a negative way, but a positive one instead. Next up, the positive extreme. "Remove" fatigue. And by this i do not mean actually removing the whole system but rather removing the fact that no fatigue disables so many actions. The system can still do all the things it currently does in the background, possibly even still count down the fatigue, yet it just disables the lockout from playing. However, introducing this in a way that still counts down fatigue and just removes the lockout would still impact the "Wisdom of Vynora" spell, since it would still be actively affecting fatigue, and would likely lead to every person using priests to spam the spell on themselves before grinding for free sleep bonus. A better possibility would probably be to remove the actual checks of fatigue along with its reduction so that fatigue remains, yet as a pure ressource for "wisdom of vynora" casts, and at the same time the conversion rate for the spell is rebalanced. Last but not least, the quicker change. Increase the fatigue regeneration while offline (or only when logged out in a bed?) to 1 hour of fatigue every 2 real hours. This would allow people who are currently running out of fatigue or are edging very close on a regular basis to not have to worry about it anymore for the time being. A change to the "Wisdom of Vynora" fatigue:sleep bonus rate should come along with this change. From its current 5 to 1 ratio to 6.5 or 7 to 1 to balance out with the fatigue increase. Looking at these three possible changes that could be made to the system the first one looks pretty bad from a player perspective at least. make life of priests AND fighters/pvpers worse without improving the current situation for those already having trouble with how it currently is at all? However, you can also pair that change with the third possibility which will effectively expand the fatigue system to all skills yet will probably make it unlikely for a human player to encounter trouble with the fatigue cap again, at least on a regular basis. The cap would still remain in place for incredibly long single grind session, however out of those who have complained about the system barely anyone ever encountered it due to this scenario. The second, extreme positive would probably not bring any change to how the current fatigue system works in the background, yet would remove any impact it has on actual gameplay experience. So as you can see, theres a bunch of things in the current fatigue system that i, personally, find very confusing and inconsistent. However, there certainly is a very easy change that could be done to the system that would likely remove most of the problems of those people stuck hitting the cap often, while making absolutely no difference to anyone who never had a problem with it, and would even minimize the chance of them ever experiencing it themselves. There also are more extreme approaches that could be taken, which likely would take more time to be worked out in detail. However, the final decision about which of these solutions could work out the best lies with the developers in the end. TLDR; current system seems to have forgotten all about war machines, being priests and has some very wonky special cases. three suggested changes: either make fatigue affect everyone equally by affecting every single action. remove fatigue check and allow people to continue even without remaining fatigue. increase fatigue regeneration while offline/logged out in a bed. on another note, keep it clean guys, theres no need to devolve into biting each other every other page. i can understand that people claim that they havent encountered the fatigue cap during their time in the game and theres no need to get mad at them, neither is it of any help for them to think they need to babysit those who do encounter it.
  4. another one for the "bugs you dont bother to report because they dont really matter since supposedly only macro'ers encounter them" corner: when you have your last action canceled by mental exhaustion kicking in the worn weapon will be shown as the tool last used, yet only to yourself, until you relog. edit: oh oh. i got more. when out of fatigue clicking the stealth button will result in absolutely nothing. not even the error that you're too exhausted. i do have to say that greyfox' art of asking for this isnt really something i'd agree with, whats with that bite, buddy? we're asking them to actually do ###### for us after all. and reylaark im actually working on pointing out a bunch of the points where you can see that the system is weird in some areas and you might understand what im referring to.
  5. moldy meat does not have any special use and its simply meat. the moldy indicator just means that it has more than 80 damage which results in its effective ql being very low, so the food you cook from it will still come out in a fresh state but with very low ql. the moldy tag also isnt limited to meat but also exists for veggies, actual food and the likes. yet for those there is also the rotten tag which indicates that they are over 90 damage and won't feed you anymore, but meat stays moldy all the way up to 100 dmg where it decays. edit: is it moldy after 70 or 80 dmg? im not too sure exactly.
  6. i agree. but just yesterday i was told that the system is working fine and i certainly do agree now. the mere fact that there are 6 actions belonging to 3 skills which you can use to grind these skills, 3 of which use fatigue and 3 of which dont, show that its a well thought-out system and not just some random spur of the moment...
  7. you are aware that you can fsb chopped veggies and diced meat, ground spices, chopped herbs? just not minced meat, mashed veggies, sausages and stuff.but even then these last quite a long time in a larder, yet i wouldnt mind minced meat and mashed veggies, items such as sausage skins and raw bacon being added to fsb-able stuff, yet its a very short timer to create those and you cant even fail the action so i wouldnt expect it to make a big difference.
  8. dragon pad cod to Arium please
  9. + 1 to removing the base chance to shattering - at 100 channeling. if you get there you deserve it. before that -1. shattering good items makes for fun stories.
  10. will this only work for old style reinforcements or will you be able to replace new reinforcements with new reinforcements too? so many possibilities to tick off peoples ocd by randomly replacing walls in tunnels :-]
  11. when i first saw the title i thought u mean tree stumps. guess i was wrong... rare materials can be used to improve items and their rarity can transfer or they can be attached to items to transfer their rarity aswell, depending on the actual item. while there are some items that currently are useless, such as rare+ slate and sandstone shards, pretty much every other rare material has some kind of use. edit: i remembered i saw this thing into the WU mod category a few days back, i think you were a WU player, so u might wanna check it out:
  12. You feel rested. - or : how to learn to appreciate the small things in life?
  13. the sheep has bigger eyes than usual. the pig has a fat, plump belly. for additional butchering mats, possible. sure why not. just make sure these dont pollude the horse trait pool or a lot of people would be very angry i guess.
  14. ah, so fancier models kinda like the wardrobe, lounge chair, canopy bed etc which do have quite a high fc requirement. sounds reasonable. + 0.5 for people liking fancy house decoration